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Youngie

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keefriffhard4life
yeah but john and paul bounced ideas off of eachother and co-wrote tunes together. other than the occasional dave tune the kinks were pretty much ray davies. did john or paul as a solo artist release a string of albums up to the level of quality as the kinks? thats really what i'm looking at when i say ray davies way better than john and paul

I suppose with this line of thinking you could say The Kinks>>>>The Stones too?

maybe but i'll say mick jagger tried on purpose to do stuff that was not like the stones. paul and john were writing similar music to what they did at the end of the beatles but it wasn't as good. when jagger or rick rubin or whoever tried to make a stones like album the result WANDERING SPIRIT was better than anything the stones have done since tattoo you

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BluzDude

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Youngie


However even individually... McCartney wrote better songs than Ray Davies ever did IMO...

Nowthat'sfunny!
...and Robert Plant writes better lyrics than Bob Dylan.

McCartney wrote "Yesterday"

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Youngie

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BluzDude

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Youngie


However even individually... McCartney wrote better songs than Ray Davies ever did IMO...

Nowthat'sfunny!
...and Robert Plant writes better lyrics than Bob Dylan.

McCartney wrote "Yesterday"

...a song I never cared for, McCartney wrote his share of excellent songs, and I'm a fan, but, IMHO he can't compare to Ray. What happened after the Beatles? Much of his lyrics (not all) were kind of childish.

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Youngie
McCartney wrote "Yesterday"

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BluzDude
...a song I never cared for, McCartney wrote his share of excellent songs, and I'm a fan, but, IMHO he can't compare to Ray. What happened after the Beatles? Much of his lyrics (not all) were kind of childish.

""Yesterday" was voted the best song of the 20th century in a 1999 BBC Radio 2 poll of music experts and listeners and was also voted the No. 1 Pop song of all time by MTV and Rolling Stone magazine the following year." from WiKi

Can't compare to Ray? Could Ray ever write songs like "Hey Jude", "For No One", "Penny Lane, "Let It Be", "The Long and Winding Road", "Here, There and Everywhere" etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-04 23:26 by Youngie.

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Youngie
I suppose with this line of thinking you could say The Kinks>>>>The Stones too?

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keefriffhard4life
maybe but i'll say mick jagger tried on purpose to do stuff that was not like the stones. paul and john were writing similar music to what they did at the end of the beatles but it wasn't as good. when jagger or rick rubin or whoever tried to make a stones like album the result WANDERING SPIRIT was better than anything the stones have done since tattoo you

Jagger wrote TERRIBLE songs! If anyone depended on his partner (Richards) it was Mick.

kinks are great; i have all their records too; their best early 60s stuff is every bit as good as the stones. super important band. i dont think their early albums, as a whole, are as good as early stones albums though. maybe because at that point the stones sounded rough like bluesmen and the kinks sounded like british teenagers trying to be bluesmen. but dave davies had real long hair for 1964, longer than keith's even. i think they were under alot of pressure, considering their label forced ray to write and record about 500 albums in their first 9 months as a band. but ray's incredible sense of melody was coming through, and vocal melodies too! which i find much more enjoyable than yelling or screaming. ironically, there's sunny afternoon about an alchoholic wife beater that they play at baseball games in god fearing parts of the usa; weird. but ray's songs were great story songs even back then.

some of you brought up the 'lennon / mccartney bouncing song ideas off each other' thing; ray davies as far as i am concerned by 1967 when he was hot on character studies and British imagery, was also at this point a stronger songwriter than lennon and mccartney combined.

then after that, after a nostalgia period for village greens, vaudeville and variety and stuff, they became a rock band proper. like by 1969. and songs about real stuff and people, like arthur, of the album 'arthur,' one of ray's uncles.

that lead to the lola vs powerman and the monegoround' record; the sarcasm skewering the music biz is classic. and it rocks. and has an untuned country type vibe. which is fabulous. and even better its also got some keith richards beggars banquet styled country lead guitar licks.

''You go to a publisher and play him your song/He says 'I hate your music and you hair is too long/But I'll sign you up because I'd hate to be wrong''

''Now my record's number 11 on the BBC/But number 7 on the N.M.E./Now the Melody Maker want to interview me/And ask my view on politics and theories on religion.''

and funny as hell.

muswell hillbillies in 1971 was born after ray's parents got moved as part of a british urban renewal project, or something, lind of like the beverley hillbillies i guess except they never discovered anything. i mean i could go through all their records but they have like i said about 500. there were divorces and nervous breakdowns, the show tune period and stuff but the music kept coming, but in my mind the music took a bit of a dump in that 70s period when nixon was president. maybe it was nixons fault. or a fixation on concept albums. it got a bit better in 1977 with sleepwalker and then with misfits and finally a good one with low budget.

the 80s records were so so, but so were the stones 80s records. each had good and lousy stuff on them, like the stones ones. last one i got was to the bone, around 1996 or so, which weas good. bottom line is ray davies was a class A songwriter and lyricist and the band was not any british invasion novelty act. but i am sure most of you people already know all that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-05 00:01 by pinkfloydthebarber.

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Youngie

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Youngie
McCartney wrote "Yesterday"

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BluzDude
...a song I never cared for, McCartney wrote his share of excellent songs, and I'm a fan, but, IMHO he can't compare to Ray. What happened after the Beatles? Much of his lyrics (not all) were kind of childish.

""Yesterday" was voted the best song of the 20th century in a 1999 BBC Radio 2 poll of music experts and listeners and was also voted the No. 1 Pop song of all time by MTV and Rolling Stone magazine the following year." from WiKi

Can't compare to Ray? Could Ray ever write songs like "Hey Jude", "For No One", "Penny Lane, "Let It Be", "The Long and Winding Road", "Here, There and Everywhere" etc.

Other than Here, There and Let it Be, I don't care for any of those songs, really. My interest in the Beatles wanes after the power pop phase. Generally, I feel that after Revolver, the Beatles stopped writing good songs, and concentrated more on production value. No doubt they were influential in that regard, but Look at Sgt Pepper, which many consider their greatest achievement. The only great song on there is A Day in the Life, the rest run from merely OK (Getting Better) to utter crap (She's Leaving Home, When I'm 64). Ray Davies was by far a greater songwriter than either Lennon or McCartney from 67 to 69, and certainly in 1971. As for great songs? Waterloo Sunset, Picture Book, Sunny Afternoon, Dedicated Follower of Fashion, Well Respected Man, Lola, Apeman, Days, Two Sisters, etc., Davies wrote a ton of them. And he didn't have the luck to have George Martin producing his stuff either.

Can't compare them to the Stones, as the Stones were far more blues/rock than either the Beatles or the Kinks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-05 00:09 by tkl7.

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tkl7

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Youngie

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Youngie
McCartney wrote "Yesterday"

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BluzDude
...a song I never cared for, McCartney wrote his share of excellent songs, and I'm a fan, but, IMHO he can't compare to Ray. What happened after the Beatles? Much of his lyrics (not all) were kind of childish.

""Yesterday" was voted the best song of the 20th century in a 1999 BBC Radio 2 poll of music experts and listeners and was also voted the No. 1 Pop song of all time by MTV and Rolling Stone magazine the following year." from WiKi

Can't compare to Ray? Could Ray ever write songs like "Hey Jude", "For No One", "Penny Lane, "Let It Be", "The Long and Winding Road", "Here, There and Everywhere" etc.

Other than Here, There and Let it Be, I don't care for any of those songs, really. My interest in the Beatles wanes after the power pop phase. Generally, I feel that after Revolver, the Beatles stopped writing good songs, and concentrated more on production value. No doubt they were influential in that regard, but Look at Sgt Pepper, which many consider their greatest achievement. The only great song on there is A Day in the Life, the rest run from merely OK (Getting Better) to utter crap (She's Leaving Home, When I'm 64). Ray Davies was by far a greater songwriter than either Lennon or McCartney from 67 to 69, and certainly in 1971. As for great songs? Waterloo Sunset, Picture Book, Sunny Afternoon, Dedicated Follower of Fashion, Well Respected Man, Lola, Apeman, Days, Two Sisters, etc., Davies wrote a ton of them. And he didn't have the luck to have George Martin producing his stuff either.

Can't compare them to the Stones, as the Stones were far more blues/rock than either the Beatles or the Kinks.

not to mention the kinks hidden gem album tracks. my favorite kinks song is a tune that sounds like its trying to ape early beatles yet destroys any early beatles stuff:

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stonesnow

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24FPS
Come Dancing, there's a perfect example of why the (later) Kinks sort of mystified American audience. It was the earliest days of MTV and they played that f-ing video over and over. It was an entertaining few minutes of old time English dance halls but no one would actually buy such a record and play it over and over.

Come Dancing did chart in the U.S.--number 6 in 1983, but only made top 20 (number 12) in the UK. There is a new 3-CD collection out called Kinks Kollekted that has a stripped down reggae version of Come Dancing recorded in 1982 and released in the UK, but the single went nowhere. Then they dressed the song up in state-of-the-art production for inclusion on State of Confusion and the song became their biggest hit single since Tired Of Waiting For You. And it was also their last big hit.

A correction to my above post about the "stripped down" 1982 version of Come Dancing--it was never released as a single. It was, in fact, the 1982 demo of the song.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-05 01:26 by stonesnow.

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stonesnow

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stonesnow

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24FPS
Come Dancing, there's a perfect example of why the (later) Kinks sort of mystified American audience. It was the earliest days of MTV and they played that f-ing video over and over. It was an entertaining few minutes of old time English dance halls but no one would actually buy such a record and play it over and over.

Come Dancing did chart in the U.S.--number 6 in 1983, but only made top 20 (number 12) in the UK. There is a new 3-CD collection out called Kinks Kollekted that has a stripped down reggae version of Come Dancing recorded in 1982 and released in the UK, but the single went nowhere. Then they dressed the song up in state-of-the-art production for inclusion on State of Confusion and the song became their biggest hit single since Tired Of Waiting For You. And it was also their last big hit.

A correction to my above post about the "stripped down" 1982 version of Come Dancing--it was never released as a single. It was, in fact, the 1982 demo of the song.

yes thats on the kinks picture book boxset

Speaking of hidden gems in the albums, Such A Shame is one that when you hear it, you're surprised it wasn't a single.

--Ray Davies was by far a greater songwriter than either Lennon or McCartney from 67 to 69--

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oh hell yeah like i said before and i totally agree

another gem is 'strangers' off the moneygoround record. awesome

the kinks have more obsure gems in their catalogue than most bands have decent, or even songs, period. their songs range from decent o awesome to outright classic.

i've always like the ones like;

i'm on an island
this time tomorrow
nothin’ in the world can stop me worryin’ ‘bout that girl
powerman
i go to sleep
come on now
get back in line
misfits
summers gone
rainy day in june
too much on my mind
living on a thin line
got to be free
sweet lady genevieve
days (maybe that was a single i dunno) etc

i mean there's got to be a hundred great obscure kinks songs that are as good or better than any of their hits, or anybody's hits

"days" was a single

ok i couldn't remember

i like that song alot at any rate

They had some pretty good B-sides as well, like the one for You really Got Me.

And of course, the B-side to Set Me Free, I Need You (the "cousin" to You Really Got Me).

What really hurt the Kinks that at the end of '65 they were prohibited for unspecified reasons of re-entering the US for 4 years.
This is '65-69; when other British Invasion bands were beginning to reap some real rewards in US. radio, big festivals, money, charts. It placed the Kinks outside of the thick of things.

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24FPS
Come Dancing, there's a perfect example of why the (later) Kinks sort of mystified American audience. It was the earliest days of MTV and they played that f-ing video over and over. It was an entertaining few minutes of old time English dance halls but no one would actually buy such a record and play it over and over.

I bought it and loved it.

Come Dancing was a large hit for The Kinks in the US. It made no. 6 on Billboard.

Love the Kinks, especially late 1960's early 1970's. Albums like "Lola" and Muswell Hillbillies" have a great blues and country feel to them, and wonderfully satirical social commentary. yes, some is tongue in cheek, but that is what makes it so much fun. But, my all time favorite is "Waterloo Sunset". I think it ranks with the soulful Beatles ballards mentioned by others in this thread.

later kinks, like later stones, not as good.

This is a great song:

Back in -68 I thought a album like 'The Kinks are the village green preservation society' was brilliant...listen to it today it's complete rubbish, and we're talking 1968 here with albums like The Beatles White album and Stones Beggar's Banquet to compare with...Kinks was and is far behind bands like The Beatles and The Rolling Stones...

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Come On
Back in -68 I thought a album like 'The Kinks are the village green preservation society' was brilliant...listen to it today it's complete rubbish, and we're talking 1968 here with albums like The Beatles White album and Stones Beggar's Banquet to compare with...Kinks was and is far behind bands like The Beatles and The Rolling Stones...

village green preservation society is brilliant. ts good enough that a company releaed a 3 cd deluxe version

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keefriffhard4life

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Come On
Back in -68 I thought a album like 'The Kinks are the village green preservation society' was brilliant...listen to it today it's complete rubbish, and we're talking 1968 here with albums like The Beatles White album and Stones Beggar's Banquet to compare with...Kinks was and is far behind bands like The Beatles and The Rolling Stones...

village green preservation society is brilliant. ts good enough that a company releaed a 3 cd deluxe version

Right on....


I was driving home early Sunday morning through Bakersfield...

Oh yeah. Well Apple released a deluxe White Album ball point pen and oh.....still Rolling Stones fans didn't even get a deluxe ball point pen from ABKCO so The Beatles must be better than The Stones.

I still listen to the Village Green Preservation Society regularly. It holds up very well, in part because it has nothing to do with the psychedelia of the time. It's similar to Dylan's John Wesley Harding in that regard.

Pete Townshend was also writing songs by himself I guess then

Townshend >>>> Ray Davies

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Come On
Back in -68 I thought a album like 'The Kinks are the village green preservation society' was brilliant...listen to it today it's complete rubbish, and we're talking 1968 here with albums like The Beatles White album and Stones Beggar's Banquet to compare with...Kinks was and is far behind bands like The Beatles and The Rolling Stones...

Absolute rubbish. I prefer Beggars due to personal taste, but VGPS beats the crappy white album any day. Why? because I can listen to VGPS all the way through and appreciate every song. The white album has some good music, but it also has utter crap, like Revolution 9, Oblidi Oblada, and those Honey Pie crapfests.

''Absolute rubbish. I prefer Beggars due to personal taste, but VGPS beats the crappy white album any day. Why? because I can listen to VGPS all the way through and appreciate every song. The white album has some good music, but it also has utter crap, like Revolution 9, Oblidi Oblada, and those Honey Pie crapfests.''

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hear hear. i prefer beggars too but in 1968 the kinks put out The Kinks Are the Village Green Preservation Society,' (and its got 'wicked annabella,' i love that song,and 'days' is from this period too) in 1969 'Arthur' (Or the Decline and Fall of the British Empire), and in 1970 'Lola versus Powerman and the Moneygoround, Part One'

thats all good schtuff.

and in 1971 Muswell Hillbillies which aint too bad either

that's 4 records in 4 years. what? today's bands put one out about every 2 years, which isn't half as good as any of these.

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stones78
Pete Townshend was also writing songs by himself I guess then

Townshend >>>> Ray Davies

Pete Townshend has conceded in interviews that Ray Davies was a better songwriter than him.