With the 50th anniversary of their first gig at London's Marquee fast approaching, this topic may be raised yet again, so it should be reiterated that Mick Avory was never actually a member of the Rolling Stones as many--including Bill Wyman and Keith Richards--have claimed. It is said that Avory was eventually dropped after a few gigs because he was not quite right for the Stones, but in his own words it was actually he who turned them down after a couple of rehearsals because they were looking for someone permanent and he already had a day job and considered himself at the time a freelancer. Apparently the confusion began as early as 1962 when Jazz News ran an article listing Avory as a member of the Rolling Stones.

ttexshexes.blogspot.com/2011/01/interview-mick-avory-of-kinks-part-one.html

kastoffkinks.co.uk/Mick%20Avory%20interview%20part%201.htm

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to who fed Jazz News this bit of misinformation to set in motion a decades-long trail of incorrectness surrounding the personnel lineup of their inaugural gig? Who was the band spokesman for the article? Was it Brian? Was it Mick? We already know what Bill and Keith seem to think...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-06-22 23:56 by stonesnow.

But Papa was......

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stonesnow
Anyone care to hazard a guess as to who fed Jazz News this bit of misinformation to set in motion

How do you know that anybody "fed" the info ?

Perhaps the publication took it upon themselves to list Avory simply because he was there that night.

Mick Avory was an oustanding drummer. But Charlie is a the one.

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Edith Grove

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stonesnow
Anyone care to hazard a guess as to who fed Jazz News this bit of misinformation to set in motion

How do you know that anybody "fed" the info ?

Perhaps the publication took it upon themselves to list Avory simply because he was there that night.

No, he wasn't. He turned them down for the gig and only rehearsed with them twice. In every interview where he's ever been asked on the subject, he emphatically states that he did not play that gig. Here's another interview link that Green Lady posted in this forum back in 2009:

www.eddybonte.be/flags/MickAvoryFootnote.cfm

In fact, I challenge you to produce one interview quote where Mick Avory states that he was actually the drummer that night.

Do you mean to imply that Mick Avory lies in every interview where the subject is raised?

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phd
Mick Avory was an oustanding drummer. But Charlie is a the one.

Mick Avory still is an outstanding drummer, but never would have been the right one for the Stones anyway. For instance, Avory only first heard of Chuck Berry from Ian Stuart at the Bricklayers Arms rehearsals. Avory was mainly into jazz at the time.

Isn't he Sylvia's dad ?

[www.iorr.org]


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Unless I am misreading it the Wiki pages for The Rolling Stones and Mick Avory contradict each other as far as Avory playing with The Stones.

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FrankM
Unless I am misreading it the Wiki pages for The Rolling Stones and Mick Avory contradict each other as far as Avory playing with The Stones.

Members of the Stones and Mick Avory seem to contradict each other as well.

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Deltics
[www.iorr.org]

Ah, much obliged, Deltics! That explains who among the Stones was in contact with
Jazz News. I've edited my original post from 1963 to 1962.

But it still doesn't explain how Jazz News came to conclude that it was Mick Avory as opposed to Tony Chapman. If only we knew the exact dates of those two Bricklayers Arms rehearsals. Mick Avory does mention in interviews that the Marquee gig was then soon upcoming. Perhaps at the time the letter was written, Avory was rehearsing with them and they were set to make an offer and the Jazz News article was never retracted, perhaps as it was deemed unimportant?

This iorr 40th anniversary page has Tony Chapman listed on drums and even has the full setlist they played for that first gig.

www.iorr.org/rs40/

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tomcasagranda
Isn't he Sylvia's dad ?

Who's Sylvia?

Ray Davies was never a Rolling Stone.

what about carlo little, geoff bradford, and dick taylor? don't they deserve their own threads too?....now, ricky fenson...no way!

STONES JAM!! MICKEYS RULES!!! (burp) NADER IN 2016!!!!! GO GIANTS!!

The truth is while Bobby Graham was playing drums in the studio for The Kinks, Mrs. Avory's child was playing drums for the Stones and Charlie was introducing kids to heroin via a really bad children's book. If we can work Clem Cattini into this theory we'll have something worth running with.

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treaclefingers
Ray Davies was never a Rolling Stone.

No but he rolls like he's stoned. Got drums if you want it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-06-23 06:08 by stonesnow.

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lunar!!!
what about carlo little, geoff bradford, and dick taylor? don't they deserve their own threads too?....now, ricky fenson...no way!

No, Carlo Little came later--that's why the girls didn't like him!

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Rocky Dijon
Mrs. Avory's child was playing drums for the Stones

No, that was one of Brian Jones' lil' illegimitemates learning to handle his stick.

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stonesnow

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tomcasagranda
Isn't he Sylvia's dad ?

Who's Sylvia?

Oh, I get it. No, that was another of Brian Jones' illegitimate offspring, actually.

She just named herself that way to give herself credit as the offspring of the first Rolling Stones drummer.

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stonesnow

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treaclefingers
Ray Davies was never a Rolling Stone.

No but he rolls like he's stoned. Got drums if you want it?

Didn't Dean Martin come up with that line, when introducing the band on his show?

"I've been rolled when I was stoned, I don't know what they're all about but here they are"....something like that anyway, I'm paraphrasing.

...add this to my list called "things I have in common with Mick Avory".

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treaclefingers

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stonesnow

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treaclefingers
Ray Davies was never a Rolling Stone.

No but he rolls like he's stoned. Got drums if you want it?

Didn't Dean Martin come up with that line, when introducing the band on his show?

"I've been rolled when I was stoned, I don't know what they're all about but here they are"....something like that anyway, I'm paraphrasing.

Ha! Ha! Yes, you're right.

video: [www.youtube.com]

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treaclefingers
Ray Davies was never a Rolling Stone.

Mick and Ray : The Glimmer Twins !!!!

Sure he was. In hindsite for certain.

From the setlist for the first gig. Would have loved to hear this live.

Sylvia's Mother, whom the narrator begs "Please Mrs Avory I'm just trying to talk to her, I'll only keep her a while"

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tomcasagranda
Sylvia's Mother, whom the narrator begs "Please Mrs Avory I'm just trying to talk to her, I'll only keep her a while"

Excellent!

'Mick Avory was never actually a member of the Rolling Stones as many--including Bill Wyman and Keith Richards--have claimed.'

Ok, if I read this right, two members of the band are wrong. They were there at the time, were you? Who has greater credibility here, two band members or someone else? Perhaps Mick Avory doesn't wish to be credited as a Rolling Stone....

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Elmo
Perhaps Mick Avory doesn't wish to be credited as a Rolling Stone....

Perhaps. But why wouldn't he? Would it have tarnished his reputation as drummer for the Kinks?

Brian Jones' Monday, July 2nd letter to Jazz News [see Deltics' post above] lists the drummer for the Stones lineup as Earl Phillips, the name of the session drummer who played for Jimmy Reed, who Brian and Keith were heavily influenced by. One could suppose that since they hadn't yet made the offer to Mick Avory, it was yet to be decided at that point--10 days before the gig--who the drummer was to be.

They rehearsed at the Bricklayers Arms once a week, I believe, and as of July 2, they would have had only one rehearsal with Mick Avory at that point. They made him an offer at the second rehearsal. Perhaps in anticipation of this offer, which would have been within a week of the gig, Brian dashed off another letter to Jazz News informing them that the name of their drummer would be Mick Avory. What was the frequency of publication of Jazz News--once a week, twice a month? In the days before the gig, it would have been too late for Brian to have sent a third letter in time for press deadline to correct the name of the drummer yet again, so that Jazz News would have gone to press listing Mick Avory as their drummer, and not Tony Chapman.

There must have been a second letter that Brian Jones sent to Jazz News--otherwise Earl Phillips would have been listed by Jazz News as their drummer for the first gig as in the letter dated July 2.