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YCAGWYW is Mick but maybe the riff is Keith I dunno. Keiths written a bunch of good riffs but thats not the point. Everything he played in the 70s is pure gold. No matter who wrote it, he played it like no other could.
Yeah I read that too but then I also read that Keith said Taylor changed it to Honky Tonk Women. And Keiths doesnt get specific about the riff which usually means he didnt really "invent it".
... and other important contributions.
Seems it's only writing when anyone, but Brian creates something.
The Satisfaction riff comes from Nowhere To Run by Martha and the Vandellas.
Intro to Honky Tonk Woman is very John Lee Hooker and Cooder was into John Lee Hooker as was Billy Gibbons (La Grange) and loads of others.
Keith and Taylor were probably getting into John Lee Hooker through Ry Cooder.
Honky Tonk Women is a Hank Williams based song with elements of John Lee Hooker and Country/Rock thrown in.
“Good artists copy, great artists steal”
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-24 07:37 by howled.
What Keith said was that Taylor brought back the country flavour. The Stones took HTW from country to rock, and Taylor took it back to country flavoured by his country bends.
Mathijs
There's quite a big difference in inventing riffs and throwing in ideas to writing melodies.
I have written plenty of guitar riffs, I have added several ideas while rehearsing or recording, but I have never written a proper song with a melody for a verse and a chorus.
Mathijs
News to me. Sounds like a horn riff, sure, but Ive never heard about this. The way Keith plays it in open G with those little changes and the slide makes it Keiths riff.
And that's (ICFTF) is the best original "Ronnie Wood" song to be found on his solo albums!
- Doxa
People, including you, are badgering on about who wrote what riff. Keith wrote Satisfaction riff, but Brian invented The Last Time riff?
See what I am saying?
Song writing is song writing, but Brian wrote/created music. He contributed greatly to the music of The Rolling Stones. He wrote a film score complete with melodies. Whether you like it or not has nothing to do with the fact there is a film score with his name on it.
What he did during the 7 or so years as a Rolling Stone deserves better than "For somebody who basically hasn't written anything in his life". Whether he wrote songs or not doesn't matter, but he did indeed write music.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-24 15:38 by His Majesty.
Er, Far East Man deserves a mention here!
So you seriously think Mick Taylor laid down the main rhythm guitar track after the song was recorded without him. Brilliant. Def Leppard they never have been.
Later he claimed they were playing Chuck Berry's Club Nitty Gritty.
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
it doesn't quite serve - for Paint It Black, have a look here: [www.timeisonourside.com]
you gots to read all the quotes about it, though. no one, including Bill, claims he originated the number,
just that what he played on the organ pedals was crucial to its final form.
i have no (0) idea why anyone would say Bill came up with Emotional Rescue.
are you thinking of Billy Preston and Melody??
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-24 19:17 by with sssoul.
None of us.
No I thought Keith meant that Taylor changed the song from country to rock because thats what he said. I dont know who did the intro riff I havent read any comments from Keith about the actual riff. I know he played a similar riff during the Satanic sessions so who knows. Until then its Keiths riff.
and it is 100% Keith they way Keith played it or any other song.
Brown sugar. The way Keith played it at Altamont is so good, so sharp and inventive. Complete control over rhythm, tone and feel.
you seem to have missed the crucial bit above where Mick T tells us explicity who plays the intro,
so i've put it in bold print for you.
meanwhile, i know the Keith quote you probably have in mind about Mick T changing HTW -
it used to be on that same [www.timeisonourside.com] page, but it's been removed -
but Keith wasn't saying it was Mick T who turned it into a rock track.
... don't know what you mean by "until then", but: right, it's Keith's
smile.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Send It To me
()
Date: April 23, 2012 23:46
"a really good single" - yeah, and World War 2 was "quite a squabble"
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-24 05:18 by Send It To me.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-24 05:18 by Send It To me.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 23, 2012 23:49
Especially interesting is the "we recorded it"-quote, since Bill isn´t on the track at all, right?
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
palerider22
()
Date: April 24, 2012 00:55
So....Keith did NOT write the basic riff for "The Last Time"...did NOT write the basic riff for "Jumping Jack Flash"...did NOT write the basic riff for "Honky Tonk Women"...did NOT write the basic riff for "Brown Sugar"...did NOT write the basic riff for "Happy"...did NOT write the basic riff for "It's Only Rock and Roll"....
This is all very disconcerting....
This is all very disconcerting....
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Send It To me
()
Date: April 24, 2012 01:00
Well, does Bobby claim he wrote the RIFF for Happy? Not clear at this point.
We know Keith DID write guitar for: Satisfaction, Start Me Up, Street Fighting Man, Gimme Shelter, YCAGWYW, Angie, Before They Me Run, Beast of Burden, etc. etc. etc.
We know Keith DID write guitar for: Satisfaction, Start Me Up, Street Fighting Man, Gimme Shelter, YCAGWYW, Angie, Before They Me Run, Beast of Burden, etc. etc. etc.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: April 24, 2012 01:12
Quote
Send It To me
Well, does Bobby claim he wrote the RIFF for Happy? Not clear at this point.
We know Keith DID write guitar for: Satisfaction, Start Me Up, Street Fighting Man, Gimme Shelter, YCAGWYW, Angie, Before They Me Run, Beast of Burden, etc. etc. etc.
YCAGWYW is Mick but maybe the riff is Keith I dunno. Keiths written a bunch of good riffs but thats not the point. Everything he played in the 70s is pure gold. No matter who wrote it, he played it like no other could.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: April 24, 2012 01:14
Quote
MathijsQuote
RedhotcarpetQuote
MathijsQuote
Redhotcarpet
The HTW main intro riff, the simplistic repeated two note riff is Taylors ticket to the Stones.
Er, no, that's Keith. The track was already recorded completely when Taylor did his overdub, which is the pentatonic country bends in the verses.
Mathijs
Not according to Keith who says Taylor.
I definitely added something to Honky Tonk Women, but it was more or less complete by the time I arrived and did my overdubs. They had already laid down the backing track, but it was very rough and incomplete. I added some guitars to it, but I didn't play the riffs that start it - that's Keith playing. I played the country kind of influence on the rock licks between the verses.
- Mick Taylor, 1979
There's many more statements that Taylor only added the countrfills. And if you listen to the track, you can hear several guitars but only one Taylor track: the country fills.
Mathijs
Yeah I read that too but then I also read that Keith said Taylor changed it to Honky Tonk Women. And Keiths doesnt get specific about the riff which usually means he didnt really "invent it".
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: April 24, 2012 04:54
Quote
KoenQuote
Mathijs
No, I really don't believe that at all. For somebody who basically hasn't written anything in his life
Except for the Last Time riff?
... and other important contributions.
Seems it's only writing when anyone, but Brian creates something.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
howled
()
Date: April 24, 2012 07:28
Quote
Send It To me
- The Last Time was simply a re-working of The Staples Singers' This May Be The Last Time
- Bill Wyman wrote the riff to Jumping Jack Flash
- Ry Cooder wrote the intro/riff to Honky Tonk Women
- Midnight Ramber was largely nicked from an old bluesman (I forget who, but I remember reading about the allegation)
- She's So Cold was ripped off of a Willie Nile track
- Marianne Faithful wrote Sister Morphine
- It's Only Rock N' Roll was mainly written by Ron Wood
- "Classic Keith riff" Brown Sugar was all written by Mick - Keith had nothing to do with that song
- Brian Jones created the melody to Ruby Tuesday (otherwise credited as a Keith song) (Keith undispudedly wrote the lyrics, which are really very articulate and poetic I must say)
- Mick Taylor wrote a bunch of stuff
- Bobby Keys contributed to Happy in such a way that he deserved credit
How do you feel about all this stuff? How much does it even matter?
The Satisfaction riff comes from Nowhere To Run by Martha and the Vandellas.
Intro to Honky Tonk Woman is very John Lee Hooker and Cooder was into John Lee Hooker as was Billy Gibbons (La Grange) and loads of others.
Keith and Taylor were probably getting into John Lee Hooker through Ry Cooder.
Honky Tonk Women is a Hank Williams based song with elements of John Lee Hooker and Country/Rock thrown in.
“Good artists copy, great artists steal”
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-24 07:37 by howled.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: April 24, 2012 11:43
Quote
RedhotcarpetQuote
MathijsQuote
RedhotcarpetQuote
MathijsQuote
Redhotcarpet
The HTW main intro riff, the simplistic repeated two note riff is Taylors ticket to the Stones.
Er, no, that's Keith. The track was already recorded completely when Taylor did his overdub, which is the pentatonic country bends in the verses.
Mathijs
Not according to Keith who says Taylor.
I definitely added something to Honky Tonk Women, but it was more or less complete by the time I arrived and did my overdubs. They had already laid down the backing track, but it was very rough and incomplete. I added some guitars to it, but I didn't play the riffs that start it - that's Keith playing. I played the country kind of influence on the rock licks between the verses.
- Mick Taylor, 1979
There's many more statements that Taylor only added the countrfills. And if you listen to the track, you can hear several guitars but only one Taylor track: the country fills.
Mathijs
Yeah I read that too but then I also read that Keith said Taylor changed it to Honky Tonk Women. And Keiths doesnt get specific about the riff which usually means he didnt really "invent it".
What Keith said was that Taylor brought back the country flavour. The Stones took HTW from country to rock, and Taylor took it back to country flavoured by his country bends.
Mathijs
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: April 24, 2012 11:45
Quote
His MajestyQuote
KoenQuote
Mathijs
No, I really don't believe that at all. For somebody who basically hasn't written anything in his life
Except for the Last Time riff?
... and other important contributions.
Seems it's only writing when anyone, but Brian creates something.
There's quite a big difference in inventing riffs and throwing in ideas to writing melodies.
I have written plenty of guitar riffs, I have added several ideas while rehearsing or recording, but I have never written a proper song with a melody for a verse and a chorus.
Mathijs
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: April 24, 2012 11:47
Ah ok, Mathijs you are right. Then Cooder might very well have played that riff and thats why Keith all of a sudden cant remember how or when he not "we" changed it from country to electric. My guess is sometime in February/March/April of 1969.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: April 24, 2012 11:49
Quote
Send It To me
Well, does Bobby claim he wrote the RIFF for Happy? Not clear at this point.
News to me. Sounds like a horn riff, sure, but Ive never heard about this. The way Keith plays it in open G with those little changes and the slide makes it Keiths riff.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
The GR
()
Date: April 24, 2012 12:08
I don't know how many times this has come up on this forum but:
Jagger wrote I Can Feel The Fire and gave it to Ronnie so he gave Mick IORnR in return.
Jagger wrote I Can Feel The Fire and gave it to Ronnie so he gave Mick IORnR in return.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: April 24, 2012 12:36
Quote
The GR
I don't know how many times this has come up on this forum but:
Jagger wrote I Can Feel The Fire and gave it to Ronnie so he gave Mick IORnR in return.
And that's (ICFTF) is the best original "Ronnie Wood" song to be found on his solo albums!
- Doxa
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: April 24, 2012 14:35
Quote
MathijsQuote
His MajestyQuote
KoenQuote
Mathijs
No, I really don't believe that at all. For somebody who basically hasn't written anything in his life
Except for the Last Time riff?
... and other important contributions.
Seems it's only writing when anyone, but Brian creates something.
There's quite a big difference in inventing riffs and throwing in ideas to writing melodies.
I have written plenty of guitar riffs, I have added several ideas while rehearsing or recording, but I have never written a proper song with a melody for a verse and a chorus.
Mathijs
People, including you, are badgering on about who wrote what riff. Keith wrote Satisfaction riff, but Brian invented The Last Time riff?
See what I am saying?Song writing is song writing, but Brian wrote/created music. He contributed greatly to the music of The Rolling Stones. He wrote a film score complete with melodies. Whether you like it or not has nothing to do with the fact there is a film score with his name on it.
What he did during the 7 or so years as a Rolling Stone deserves better than "For somebody who basically hasn't written anything in his life". Whether he wrote songs or not doesn't matter, but he did indeed write music.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-24 15:38 by His Majesty.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 24, 2012 14:39
Quote
DoxaQuote
The GR
I don't know how many times this has come up on this forum but:
Jagger wrote I Can Feel The Fire and gave it to Ronnie so he gave Mick IORnR in return.
And that's (ICFTF) is the best original "Ronnie Wood" song to be found on his solo albums!
- Doxa
Er, Far East Man deserves a mention here!
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
WeLoveToPlayTheBlues
()
Date: April 24, 2012 16:23
Quote
RedhotcarpetQuote
MathijsQuote
RedhotcarpetQuote
MathijsQuote
Redhotcarpet
The HTW main intro riff, the simplistic repeated two note riff is Taylors ticket to the Stones.
Er, no, that's Keith. The track was already recorded completely when Taylor did his overdub, which is the pentatonic country bends in the verses.
Mathijs
Not according to Keith who says Taylor.
I definitely added something to Honky Tonk Women, but it was more or less complete by the time I arrived and did my overdubs. They had already laid down the backing track, but it was very rough and incomplete. I added some guitars to it, but I didn't play the riffs that start it - that's Keith playing. I played the country kind of influence on the rock licks between the verses.
- Mick Taylor, 1979
There's many more statements that Taylor only added the countrfills. And if you listen to the track, you can hear several guitars but only one Taylor track: the country fills.
Mathijs
Yeah I read that too but then I also read that Keith said Taylor changed it to Honky Tonk Women. And Keiths doesnt get specific about the riff which usually means he didnt really "invent it".
So you seriously think Mick Taylor laid down the main rhythm guitar track after the song was recorded without him. Brilliant. Def Leppard they never have been.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Rocknroll1969
()
Date: April 24, 2012 16:27
Keith wrote the greatest song ever. GIMME SHELTER
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: April 24, 2012 16:36
Wyman didn't come up with the JJF riff - what he was playing that day when the Glimmers showed up late
was Satisfaction backwards, to mock it/them - and Satisfaction backwards is not the JJF riff.
Bobby didn't write the Happy riff.
Ronnie and Mick co-wrote both ICFTF and IORR.
Mick T did not play or compose the intro to HTW; nor did Keith lift it from Ry Cooder.
Keith was playing around with that intro during the Satanic Sessions.
what was the rest of the question?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-24 16:37 by with sssoul.
was Satisfaction backwards, to mock it/them - and Satisfaction backwards is not the JJF riff.
Bobby didn't write the Happy riff.
Ronnie and Mick co-wrote both ICFTF and IORR.
Mick T did not play or compose the intro to HTW; nor did Keith lift it from Ry Cooder.
Keith was playing around with that intro during the Satanic Sessions.
what was the rest of the question?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-24 16:37 by with sssoul.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
marcovandereijk
()
Date: April 24, 2012 17:40
Quote
with sssoul
Wyman didn't come up with the JJF riff - what he was playing that day when the Glimmers showed up late
was Satisfaction backwards, to mock it/them - and Satisfaction backwards is not the JJF riff.
Later he claimed they were playing Chuck Berry's Club Nitty Gritty.
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Elmo Lewis
()
Date: April 24, 2012 18:10
While Mick wrote BS, I always thought Keith came up with the intro. Who knows?
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: April 24, 2012 18:50
I know I've previously read that Wyman came up with both Paint it Black and Emotional Rescue.
Paint it Black started as a lumbering piano line, if memory serves.
I have no idea if that is true, or where I even read it. Is it possibly from Sanchez's book? I haven't read that since it first came out.
Paint it Black started as a lumbering piano line, if memory serves.
I have no idea if that is true, or where I even read it. Is it possibly from Sanchez's book? I haven't read that since it first came out.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: April 24, 2012 19:12
Quote
treaclefingers
I know I've previously read that Wyman came up with both Paint it Black and Emotional Rescue.
Paint it Black started as a lumbering piano line, if memory serves.
it doesn't quite serve - for Paint It Black, have a look here: [www.timeisonourside.com]
you gots to read all the quotes about it, though. no one, including Bill, claims he originated the number,
just that what he played on the organ pedals was crucial to its final form.
i have no (0) idea why anyone would say Bill came up with Emotional Rescue.
are you thinking of Billy Preston and Melody??
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-24 19:17 by with sssoul.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: April 24, 2012 19:50
Quote
Elmo Lewis
While Mick wrote BS, I always thought Keith came up with the intro. Who knows?
None of us.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: April 24, 2012 20:24
Quote
WeLoveToPlayTheBluesQuote
RedhotcarpetQuote
MathijsQuote
RedhotcarpetQuote
MathijsQuote
Redhotcarpet
The HTW main intro riff, the simplistic repeated two note riff is Taylors ticket to the Stones.
Er, no, that's Keith. The track was already recorded completely when Taylor did his overdub, which is the pentatonic country bends in the verses.
Mathijs
Not according to Keith who says Taylor.
I definitely added something to Honky Tonk Women, but it was more or less complete by the time I arrived and did my overdubs. They had already laid down the backing track, but it was very rough and incomplete. I added some guitars to it, but I didn't play the riffs that start it - that's Keith playing. I played the country kind of influence on the rock licks between the verses.
- Mick Taylor, 1979
There's many more statements that Taylor only added the countrfills. And if you listen to the track, you can hear several guitars but only one Taylor track: the country fills.
Mathijs
Yeah I read that too but then I also read that Keith said Taylor changed it to Honky Tonk Women. And Keiths doesnt get specific about the riff which usually means he didnt really "invent it".
So you seriously think Mick Taylor laid down the main rhythm guitar track after the song was recorded without him. Brilliant. Def Leppard they never have been.
No I thought Keith meant that Taylor changed the song from country to rock because thats what he said. I dont know who did the intro riff I havent read any comments from Keith about the actual riff. I know he played a similar riff during the Satanic sessions so who knows. Until then its Keiths riff.
and it is 100% Keith they way Keith played it or any other song.
Brown sugar. The way Keith played it at Altamont is so good, so sharp and inventive. Complete control over rhythm, tone and feel.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: April 24, 2012 20:30
More important, whats true about If you cant rock me or a minimalistic diamond like Hot stuff or Dance little sister or Slave or Worried about you?
Those are mature guitar riffs that never grow old. Thats where his true genius lies imo.
Those are mature guitar riffs that never grow old. Thats where his true genius lies imo.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: April 24, 2012 21:08
Quote
RedhotcarpetQuote
Mathijs
I added some guitars to [HTW], but I didn't play the riffs that start it - that's Keith playing.
I played the country kind of influence on the rock licks between the verses.
- Mick Taylor, 1979, quoted on [www.timeisonourside.com]
... I dont know who did the intro riff I havent read any comments from Keith about the actual riff.
you seem to have missed the crucial bit above where Mick T tells us explicity who plays the intro,
so i've put it in bold print for you.
meanwhile, i know the Keith quote you probably have in mind about Mick T changing HTW -
it used to be on that same [www.timeisonourside.com] page, but it's been removed -
but Keith wasn't saying it was Mick T who turned it into a rock track.
Quote
Redhotcarpet
I know [Keith] played a similar riff during the Satanic sessions so who knows. Until then its Keiths riff.
... don't know what you mean by "until then", but: right, it's Keith's
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: April 24, 2012 21:09
Quote
His MajestyQuote
Elmo Lewis
While Mick wrote BS, I always thought Keith came up with the intro. Who knows?
None of us.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: April 24, 2012 22:09
Quote
with sssoulQuote
treaclefingers
I know I've previously read that Wyman came up with both Paint it Black and Emotional Rescue.
Paint it Black started as a lumbering piano line, if memory serves.
it doesn't quite serve - for Paint It Black, have a look here: [www.timeisonourside.com]
you gots to read all the quotes about it, though. no one, including Bill, claims he originated the number,
just that what he played on the organ pedals was crucial to its final form.
i have no (0) idea why anyone would say Bill came up with Emotional Rescue.
are you thinking of Billy Preston and Melody??
smile.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Send It To me
()
Date: April 24, 2012 23:17
Quote
Rocknroll1969
Keith wrote the greatest song ever. GIMME SHELTER
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