He has made some great contributions - One Hit to the Body, Everything Is Turning To Gold, IORR, Dance, etc. But nothing after the Dirty Work record has a Wood credit. What gives?

Dirty Work was not very successful as an album.
Maybe Mick and Keith made him responsible of this failure and refused every Wood contribution after this album.
He was some kind of patsy.
I read that Ronnie sometimes happened to be badly treated by the Glimmer.

Seems to roughly coincide with when they made him a full member. Maybe they thought he didn't need the publishing revenue any more. They can always give him "inspiration" like they did on "Hey Negrita". By the way, "Inspiration" translates as "thanks for the song but we're taking all the publishing anyway".

I think it something to do with the whole new order of The Rolling Stones estalished in 1989. Many old traditions changed then.

The role of each member is more specified. Or to say it other way: Jagger & Richards dominance and guidance is established more firmly than ever before. They didn't need a "third man" any longer, or there was no role for such an entity any longer. Ronnie's role was put down. For example, as a live guitarist he turned to be something between Keith's sidekick and sideman altogether, which is rather different compared to the contribubion he had on stage 1975-1982.

With STEEL WHEELS they also quite radically changed their habits in making albums. It was not any longer people offering ideas, and jamming endless hours in the studio finding the right feel or groove. Mick and Keith wrote together - and alone - the songs prior the sessions (or a least they checked the ideas alraedy they had for teh sessions, and what each other has to offer). Then the band worked those songs as quickly in the studio as possible. The model of Mck and Keith writing material together for the album prior the sessions was something they hadn't done since the late 60's I suppose. It also meant that there was no place for new ideas - for the others to offer - in the process any longer. The songs were already written, and the band recorded them as quick as possible.

This order of events was repeated in their following albums as well. Since the the Stones make new music so rarely - plus they don't have much artistic ambition in doing them - Jagger and Richards can handle it by themselves easily. They don't creatively need help in that section. They can write 'autopilot' Stones music better than no one. A BIGGER BANG was almost total Mick & Keith show by even recording the backing tracks by themselves.

It looks like that the only way to have a cake of the credits - or even to influence to the creative process - is to do something with either Jagger or Richards in their solo projects, and the songs derive from that source to Stones sessions. For some reason Woodie is not wanted man for neither of Mick or Keith in their private courts any longer (Why? My picture is that Ronnie burned himself during the 80's when trying to 'save' the band. Ronnie is the only corps left from the WW3. But that needs another discussion)

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-18 09:42 by Doxa.

He has: he got a songwriting credit on "Break The Spell".

Ronnie has said that his multiple writing credits in the mid-eighties were symptomatic of Mick's and Keith's "writing machine" having broken down. When relating this—to his credit—he seemed happier to have Mick and Keith back working as a team than he was with the multiple writing credits.

He's doin his own albums....in Stones he's just second guitarist...


I was driving home early Sunday morning through Bakersfield...

Since Steel Wheels, he seems to have had far more difficulty controlling his drug problems and that seems to have dominated a large part of his relationship with the band, including songwriting.

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Send It To me
He has made some great contributions - One Hit to the Body, Everything Is Turning To Gold, IORR, Dance, etc. But nothing after the Dirty Work record has a Wood credit. What gives?

Think of the time period you're referring to. Most of his credits were in a six year period from 1980-86 when the Stones put out four studio albums.

Theyve put out four studio albums in the last 26 years. If they're so bereft of ideas when making an album every six or seven years that they have to reply on a third songwriter, then its a pretty sorry state of affairs.

Besides, most of his credits were on Dirty Work when he was writing with Keith. He hasnt really done that since (or hasnt needed to). What songwriting there has been in the Stones in the last 15 years has pretty much been done by Mick. Something which wasnt the case in the mid 80s.

How much d'you reckon Ronnie is worth now - solo career, DJ/VJ, painting. clothes range etc. I'd reckon about £5-£10 million.

Could it be that Ronnie keeps all his good songs for his solo albums and doesn't have anything left to offer to Stones projects?

Peace,
Mr DJA

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Glam Descendant
He has: he got a songwriting credit on "Break The Spell".

No he didn't.

Because he doesn't play in the same sandbox as Mick and Keith?

Simple, cause Mick and keef treat him the same way as Bill Wyman, and mick taylor.
he does not count, in their opinion
jeroen.

a shame really

Because he doesn't know how long a piece of string is?

his songs sounds like "Faces", we're talking Rolling Stones!

He's been too busy painting?

He got sober AND quit smoking?

I, among others was glad to see Ronnie get some writing credits on the first few albums after he joined and was also curious as to why his writing credits dropped off in later years. I think Doxa made a good point regarding the "new order" established when they reconvened in 1989. I think a definite decision was made to show the public that The Rolling Stones were about Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, and I remember recalling that such a vibe was very prominent when I saw the Stones at Shea Stadium in '89. Despite all the hired hands, it really impressed me as "The Mick and Keith Show." I remember reading an interview with Wood around that time where he was asked a somewhat unrelated question about why he was no longer chipping in on vocals. He said something like, "Mick and Keith wanted to get their Glimmer Twins image back and I totally respected that and didn't mind stepping back from the spotlight a bit." I'm sure he still contributed ideas, but swallowed his pride and let the writing credits fall as they have in post - '89 years.

True - and considering the amount of money he's raked in from record sales and touring since becoming a 'full member' of a band who are still together a couple of decades later that most certainly outweighs gettkng a few more writing credits in a band which would probably have fallen apart by the late 80s or early 90s.

Good career move in the end.

(Obviously, the fact that he pissed away most of that money several times over is another issue entirely!)

Quote
Doxa
I think it something to do with the whole new order of The Rolling Stones estalished in 1989. Many old traditions changed then.

The role of each member is more specified. Or to say it other way: Jagger & Richards dominance and guidance is established more firmly than ever before. They didn't need a "third man" any longer, or there was no role for such an entity any longer. Ronnie's role was put down. For example, as a live guitarist he turned to be something between Keith's sidekick and sideman altogether, which is rather different compared to the contribubion he had on stage 1975-1982.

With STEEL WHEELS they also quite radically changed their habits in making albums. It was not any longer people offering ideas, and jamming endless hours in the studio finding the right feel or groove. Mick and Keith wrote together - and alone - the songs prior the sessions (or a least they checked the ideas alraedy they had for teh sessions, and what each other has to offer). Then the band worked those songs as quickly in the studio as possible. The model of Mck and Keith writing material together for the album prior the sessions was something they hadn't done since the late 60's I suppose. It also meant that there was no place for new ideas - for the others to offer - in the process any longer. The songs were already written, and the band recorded them as quick as possible.

This order of events was repeated in their following albums as well. Since the the Stones make new music so rarely - plus they don't have much artistic ambition in doing them - Jagger and Richards can handle it by themselves easily. They don't creatively need help in that section. They can write 'autopilot' Stones music better than no one. A BIGGER BANG was almost total Mick & Keith show by even recording the backing tracks by themselves.

It looks like that the only way to have a cake of the credits - or even to influence to the creative process - is to do something with either Jagger or Richards in their solo projects, and the songs derive from that source to Stones sessions. For some reason Woodie is not wanted man for neither of Mick or Keith in their private courts any longer (Why? My picture is that Ronnie burned himself during the 80's when trying to 'save' the band. Ronnie is the only corps left from the WW3. But that needs another discussion)

- Doxa

I think Ronnie's 'personal demons' may have played a role here as well. Not as though MJ would have put up with Ronnie whilst creating music. Maybe things will change now, with his sobriety and Keith's waning ability.

Because his nasal cold is the post-useage of something perhaps?

I think the bigger question is why Chuck Leavell hasn't had a songwriting credit since Back to Zero.

Quote
Doxa
I think it something to do with the whole new order of The Rolling Stones estalished in 1989. Many old traditions changed then.

The role of each member is more specified. Or to say it other way: Jagger & Richards dominance and guidance is established more firmly than ever before. They didn't need a "third man" any longer, or there was no role for such an entity any longer. Ronnie's role was put down. For example, as a live guitarist he turned to be something between Keith's sidekick and sideman altogether, which is rather different compared to the contribubion he had on stage 1975-1982.

With STEEL WHEELS they also quite radically changed their habits in making albums. It was not any longer people offering ideas, and jamming endless hours in the studio finding the right feel or groove. Mick and Keith wrote together - and alone - the songs prior the sessions (or a least they checked the ideas alraedy they had for teh sessions, and what each other has to offer). Then the band worked those songs as quickly in the studio as possible. The model of Mck and Keith writing material together for the album prior the sessions was something they hadn't done since the late 60's I suppose. It also meant that there was no place for new ideas - for the others to offer - in the process any longer. The songs were already written, and the band recorded them as quick as possible.

This order of events was repeated in their following albums as well. Since the the Stones make new music so rarely - plus they don't have much artistic ambition in doing them - Jagger and Richards can handle it by themselves easily. They don't creatively need help in that section. They can write 'autopilot' Stones music better than no one. A BIGGER BANG was almost total Mick & Keith show by even recording the backing tracks by themselves.

It looks like that the only way to have a cake of the credits - or even to influence to the creative process - is to do something with either Jagger or Richards in their solo projects, and the songs derive from that source to Stones sessions. For some reason Woodie is not wanted man for neither of Mick or Keith in their private courts any longer (Why? My picture is that Ronnie burned himself during the 80's when trying to 'save' the band. Ronnie is the only corps left from the WW3. But that needs another discussion)

- Doxa

Fantastic. Spot on. And this is what I thought about yesterday when I read an article, think it was Sykes about his photos from the 1975 tour. He described Ronnie as a puppy wagging his tail to everyone.

Maybe he felt he cashed in and being a fan of Keith he had to get Keith to love him. Keith hated Mick.

And I did also think about the new order in 1989 but from another standpoint, Keiths. 1989 is not really a reniuon, it's two soloartists joining the same stage and sharing their past. Mick looks like he's somewhere else, Keith has his own style.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-19 10:15 by Redhotcarpet.

For Ronnie Wood to have any contributions in this "band", (who wouldn't want that?), would require The Rolling Stones to be an artistically functioning 'real' band full of musicians doing it for the love of their creation and craft. Not millionarie senior citizens who are more brand than band making every decision with finacial advisors at hand. Face it. They're sell-outs. Big time.

____________________________________________________________________

New Track - Indoor Sunshine
[www.thepowergoats.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-19 10:32 by jamesfdouglas.

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jamesfdouglas
For Ronnie Wood to have any contributions in this "band", (who wouldn't want that?), would require The Rolling Stones to be an artistically functioning 'real' band full of musicians doing it for the love of their creation and craft. Not millionarie senior citizens who are more brand than band making every decision with finacial advisors at hand. Face it. They're sell-outs. Big time.

True, but they seem to be doing something right to have so many of us on here bitching all the time.

Thanks for always humoring me rants treaclefingers - cheers to you!


The thing about The Stones that makes them unique for me - while I've compared their shameless tackiness and degree of sell-out to KISS here a bunch of times (i'm a little disillusioned - can you tell haha) - they USED to be SOOOOOOO GOOD. KISS was never good to begin with, they've always been the tackiest whores in music.

I think now, with so little ACTUAL activity happening, the cracks are really starting to show. THey've been spectacle without substance now for HALF of their existance. Their glorious past is now SO far behind them, but the recent bootleg series only highlights how good they WERE compared to (i was going to say "now" but they've done nothing for 5 YEARS).

____________________________________________________________________

New Track - Indoor Sunshine
[www.thepowergoats.com]

Realistically if today's Ronnie Wood was capable of writing most of all of a song he would have done so. The "biz" is always looking for great songs.

Regarding money Ronnie has been paid more than $50 million from the Stones as well as charging big bucks for his art because he is a member of the Stones. The guy squandered money like it was water on his drugs, his lifestyle, his women.

Quote
jamesfdouglas
Thanks for always humoring me rants treaclefingers - cheers to you!


The thing about The Stones that makes them unique for me - while I've compared their shameless tackiness and degree of sell-out to KISS here a bunch of times (i'm a little disillusioned - can you tell haha) - they USED to be SOOOOOOO GOOD. KISS was never good to begin with, they've always been the tackiest whores in music.

I think now, with so little ACTUAL activity happening, the cracks are really starting to show. THey've been spectacle without substance now for HALF of their existance. Their glorious past is now SO far behind them, but the recent bootleg series only highlights how good they WERE compared to (i was going to say "now" but they've done nothing for 5 YEARS).

Jamie, I know you have a real passion for the music so when you don't see it in others that are supposedly muscians (Gene Simmons anyone), it annoys the hell out of you and I understand why, because he annoys me as well.

I mentioned in another thread I saw your TV appearance on that Ottawa show...you were great, more power to the goats!

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treaclefingers

Quote
jamesfdouglas
Thanks for always humoring me rants treaclefingers - cheers to you!


The thing about The Stones that makes them unique for me - while I've compared their shameless tackiness and degree of sell-out to KISS here a bunch of times (i'm a little disillusioned - can you tell haha) - they USED to be SOOOOOOO GOOD. KISS was never good to begin with, they've always been the tackiest whores in music.

I think now, with so little ACTUAL activity happening, the cracks are really starting to show. THey've been spectacle without substance now for HALF of their existance. Their glorious past is now SO far behind them, but the recent bootleg series only highlights how good they WERE compared to (i was going to say "now" but they've done nothing for 5 YEARS).

Jamie, I know you have a real passion for the music so when you don't see it in others that are supposedly muscians (Gene Simmons anyone), it annoys the hell out of you and I understand why, because he annoys me as well.

I mentioned in another thread I saw your TV appearance on that Ottawa show...you were great, more power to the goats!

Thanks so much for the props!
Yeah for sure, being in the band scene, seeing the passion, drive and hard work put in by so many friends, peers and collegues is quite something. Then when you turn around and see What The Stones have become - the skyrocketing ticket prices milking the fans - the decadence, the arrogance, the milking of fans, the contention for fans (it's not 'cool detachment' anymore - which THEY invented - they simply don't genuinely care, we're all walking ATMs to them - no matter what "Keef" mumbles) the drooling over this Vegas slop by poor sods who don't understand the music biz enough to see The Stones as what they really are now... makes me sick and sad at the same tie now if I think too much about it.

These days when I enjoy The Stones, it's always by myself, it's always older (aka - good) stuff of theirs, and I almost always have to re-imagine myself listening to them as a teenager - when I bought the whole bad-boy-pirate bull$#!t. I have to take that extra step of effort now to enjoy their good ('66-'81) stuff.

The only thing in culture I can compare to this level of PROFOUND dissappointment would be Star Wars.

Classic Trilogy = the 'real' Stones (you know, when the bass player counted as a band member).
Prequel Trilogy = the Vegas Era. All spectacle - no substance.

____________________________________________________________________

New Track - Indoor Sunshine
[www.thepowergoats.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-19 21:08 by jamesfdouglas.