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Doxa
This is a place to thank the critical crowd of IORR and especially His Majesty for finally proven true that the magical riff was not only played by Brian, but also invited by him.
With that singlular riff Brian actually made bigger and more well-known guitar contribution to the music of The Rolling Stones than any of the guys fullfilling his shoes later would do. I leave the guitar nerds to wank whatever and wherever but the truth is that it doesn't matter what you say wiuth the most intellectual words in the page 97 if you don't have your face on the cover! The magic of Brian Jones was that what he did was always front cover material. And it still, after all these yaers, shines.
If Keith would have come with the riff I am sure we would hear nowadays stories how all the other riffs of him would be derivatives of it, starting with "Satisfaction"...
- Doxa
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Doxa
This is a place to thank the critical crowd of IORR and especially His Majesty for finally proven true that the magical riff was not only played by Brian, but also invited by him.
With that singlular riff Brian actually made bigger and more well-known guitar contribution to the music of The Rolling Stones than any of the guys fullfilling his shoes later would do. I leave the guitar nerds to wank whatever and wherever but the truth is that it doesn't matter what you say wiuth the most intellectual words in the page 97 if you don't have your face on the cover! The magic of Brian Jones was that what he did was always front cover material. And it still, after all these yaers, shines.
If Keith would have come with the riff I am sure we would hear nowadays stories how all the other riffs of him would be derivatives of it, starting with "Satisfaction"...
- Doxa
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Doxa
As song it is - okay, a rip off - but that doesn't mean anything. Like "I Wanna be Your Man" it is rather mediocre song, but like the Lennon/McCartney original, it is the performance that counts here. I think the greatness of "The Last Time" derives from three different sources.
The first is the over-all sound, the production. It is Andrew's version of "wall sound" - be it inentionala or not - but the whole atmopshere with all the echo and is so thick but still earthy, so raw, dangerous... That's so original, and still it distinguishes the Stones sound reamarkably from their contemporaries, especially from the Beatles. The sound. Just heard it from radio recently, and it still sounded awesome. Still 'eternal' and a bit mystical.
The second is, of course, the guitar riff. Simply hypnotic and the instrumental essence of the song. Still most of people think it is Keith Richards here, since its works similarly way as Keith's riffs in so many oher distinguished Stones songs. But this is a typical Brian manaouvre here - when he doesn't play just the rhythm guitar, he does something innovative and almost genious-like that really stands out from the song - be it fisrt harmonica, slide guitar solo - of which many of the early Stones singles are famous for. Playing a guidance riff like this was just another move like that, nothing sort of "I am riff master". A year ot two later whe could have done it wih a sitar or a marimba or a flute. It is him tehre fighting there with Jagger of the spotlight. The tension creates wonderful results, "The Last Time" being one of the greatest.
The third is the other distinguihed instrument, namely, Jagger's vocals. The tone and color in his voice.... Damn he sounds angry, frightening, dark; stemming partly from his training in the blues classics, but now finding his own sound and delivery... The words that are quite simple and starightforward grow up in his interpretation to almost harsh statements. Keith's more tender background voice softens the chorus and makes it more pop but unfortunately not too much. It is the angst in Jagger's naturally aggressive voice that gives the edge to the song, and lifts is unique high. No any Johnny Rottens with all their voice tricks would ever make such a natural impression of aggression.
I think it is due to those three elements - the authentic atmopshere of the song, very much made possible by the day's technology and luck; Brian's touch in the riff; and Jagger's youthful angry vitalness - any attempt to play the song since its heyday is doomed to fail. You can't copy the context.
- Doxa
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DandelionPowderman
If it is Taylor who plays the riff on Bitch, I would at least put that one up there near Brian's TLT-riff. Ronnie's Hey Negrita wouldn't be that far off, either.
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DandelionPowderman
[For me, it's the combination of Mick's and Keith's vocals that makes the track hypnotic.
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DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
[For me, it's the combination of Mick's and Keith's vocals that makes the track hypnotic.
I can see your point but what is striking is the color and tone of Jagger's voice. That is unique element there. Keith's voice is nice but like "anyone's". I admit that soft, Beatle-like harmony element is important in the over-all sound, (like Charlie's drums in the whole musical track), but it is Jagger's unique voice that makes the difference BIG TIME. He is BIG VOICE; the aggressive element hat is essenmtial in he track. Keith's normal 'white boy's voice' has has only point against Jagger' dark distinguished voice - the voice of The Rolling Stones.
Sometimes I feel, DP, that you don't appreciete Jagger's unique contribution enough in the sound, history and significance of the Rolling Stones. Comparing Keith's conribution in vocals to Jagger's is like claiming Taylor's guitar contribution is as essential to the Stones sound, say, "Honky Tonk Women" or "Brown Sugar" as Keith's guitar. Mick Jagger is the greatest rock and roll singer ever, and "The Last Time" is one the first proofs of that.
- Doxa
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MathijsQuote
Doxa
This is a place to thank the critical crowd of IORR and especially His Majesty for finally proven true that the magical riff was not only played by Brian, but also invited by him.
With that singlular riff Brian actually made bigger and more well-known guitar contribution to the music of The Rolling Stones than any of the guys fullfilling his shoes later would do. I leave the guitar nerds to wank whatever and wherever but the truth is that it doesn't matter what you say wiuth the most intellectual words in the page 97 if you don't have your face on the cover! The magic of Brian Jones was that what he did was always front cover material. And it still, after all these yaers, shines.
If Keith would have come with the riff I am sure we would hear nowadays stories how all the other riffs of him would be derivatives of it, starting with "Satisfaction"...
- Doxa
I have never been impressed with the riff per se -it is another take on some well known blues fill. What really impressed me, and still impresses me, is the production of it: the piercing sound, loud as hell, panned right in the middle of the stereo image. This was not R&B anymore, but this was a guitar driven rock band puting color in a B&W music scene. It still sounds very, very modern -and it's 48 years old.
Mathijs
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howled
I think "The Last Time" sounds very early 60s.
Without the riff, it would have been a lot less.
The Chorus is the ripoff bit and the verses are original.
It's also interesting because of it's call answer structure.
The Blues usually has a call that sets up the tension and then an (mostly immediate) answer that resolves and releases the tension.
All of the verse vocals in "The Last Time" are calls that consist of tension and it's not until the Chorus vocal that the answer part comes into it and resolves the tension.
But even though the verse vocals are all calls, there is the riff that runs continuously side by side with the verse vocals and the riff is a call and immediate answer riff that is constantly repeating and going around and around.
So the verse vocals are all calls and the riff is continuously calling and answering at the same time and then the riff drops out for the Chorus and the Chorus vocals are the answer to the verses repeated vocal calls.
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Mathijs
I have never been impressed with the riff per se -it is another take on some well known blues fill. What really impressed me, and still impresses me, is the production of it: the piercing sound, loud as hell, panned right in the middle of the stereo image. This was not R&B anymore, but this was a guitar driven rock band puting color in a B&W music scene. It still sounds very, very modern -and it's 48 years old.
Mathijs
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His Majesty
The riff is clever, how he plays it further up the neck, but incorporates open strings. It's not just yet another take on some well known blues fill, but a creative twist which both looks back, but also forward. Noone had done it quite like that before.
In a way, the essence of the band is in the riff and how he plays it.
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DoxaQuote
MathijsQuote
Doxa
This is a place to thank the critical crowd of IORR and especially His Majesty for finally proven true that the magical riff was not only played by Brian, but also invited by him.
With that singlular riff Brian actually made bigger and more well-known guitar contribution to the music of The Rolling Stones than any of the guys fullfilling his shoes later would do. I leave the guitar nerds to wank whatever and wherever but the truth is that it doesn't matter what you say wiuth the most intellectual words in the page 97 if you don't have your face on the cover! The magic of Brian Jones was that what he did was always front cover material. And it still, after all these yaers, shines.
If Keith would have come with the riff I am sure we would hear nowadays stories how all the other riffs of him would be derivatives of it, starting with "Satisfaction"...
- Doxa
I have never been impressed with the riff per se -it is another take on some well known blues fill. What really impressed me, and still impresses me, is the production of it: the piercing sound, loud as hell, panned right in the middle of the stereo image. This was not R&B anymore, but this was a guitar driven rock band puting color in a B&W music scene. It still sounds very, very modern -and it's 48 years old.
Mathijs
But have you been impressed with the riff of "Satisfaction" per se either? I think the same arguments hold for both riffs - and I think league of the guitar riffs - that it is basically the sound how they are accomplished in the studio that makes the trick. But both riffs - "The Last Time" and "Satisfaction" - sound catchy and modern. Timeless. But over-all, I think the Stones very quickly learn the significance and possibilities of the 'tricks' of the studio and production - that very much of the effectness of the song derives from behind the desk. They had preety much their ears in the finished product, how it ends up sounding. Even the first singles - "I Wanna Be Your Man, "Not Fade Aawy", "It's All Over Now" - contain incredible sound experiments by the standards of the day. Maybe some of it by accident but I think there was also ear and intention for that as well. I especially think that Brian Jones had some special talent in that direction in studying "sounds".
- Doxa
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RedhotcarpetQuote
His Majesty
The riff is clever, how he plays it further up the neck, but incorporates open strings. It's not just yet another take on some well known blues fill, but a creative twist which both looks back, but also forward. Noone had done it quite like that before.
In a way, the essence of the band is in the riff and how he plays it.
+1