One could alternatively argue that following the BIGGER BANG tour wrap-up in 2007 that Mick had had enough of the band. After a couple decades of watching performances suffer from Keith and Ronnie's dependencies and being frustrated with Keith's drunken remarks to the media (one should note that the tiny todger crack was also said verbatim in an interview Keith gave just as A BIGGER BANG was released) making Mick personally and the band professionally look like a joke, Mick decided to focus his energies outside the band.

There was a renewed effort to concentrate on his film & television production ventures and since 2008, he had been working hard on realizing Dave Stewart's international super group concept. SuperHeavy represented Mick's last great chance to establish himself outside the band. THE VERY BEST OF MICK JAGGER had stiffed in 2007 and with it the planned reissues of Mick's remastered solo catalog vanished without a trace. Thoughts of playing a few live gigs to support SHINE A LIGHT in 2008 were scuppered by Ronnie's condition. The decision to sign with UMG a deal based on exploiting the back catalog rather than continuing to present the band as a going concern recording new CD's and touring was significant.

The handling of the UMG bonus discs was also telling. Mick has been in complete control. Keith was humiliated by Mick bringing in Mick Taylor without his knowledge for "Plundered My Soul." An action that placed Don Was uncomfortably in the middle of the former Glimmer Twins. Keith's role was reduced to a virtual sideman on both projects with Charlie contributing more and involved to a greater extent. It appears Keith's biggest contribution to the projects was to give interviews. His guitar overdubs were extremely minimal. He did not have a production role as Mick and Don Was worked together on both projects exclusively.

SuperHeavy represented something forward-thinking unlike the looking back at the Stones catalog. The second the album tanked in the US, Mick (the constant capitalist) turned his back on the project. No second video was shot. No live appearances happened. As it was several members of the band appeared understandably irked at the amount of focus given Mick in interviews. Judging by media coverage one would have thought the album was Mick Jagger and Friends rather than the balanced effort that went into the songwriting. SuperHeavy's lack of commercial viability in the market that matters most to Jagger meant turning attention back to the Stones if he is to have a Last Act in music short of celebrity duets like "T.H.E." / "Go Home" or having songs written about him for audiences that know him only as an icon and do not listen to his work.

So how to revive the Stones? Obviously anniversary book/film/CD set do not require live performances or new material, but they would help maximize sales. The December rehearsal can be seen as Mick having a look in after a couple days to see how consistently a sober Keith can play. The Apollo gig was obviously meant with scrutiny by more than just fans. You can bet Jane Rose posting Keith's rehearsal was not for the benefit of naysayers on a message board. Mick's reaction to Ronnie leaking plans of the May rehearsals can be viewed as fear that if the Stones (read: Keith) did not make the grade, all bets were off. My own bet is on a Stones appearance for SNL. Mick's announcement as host/performer were timed to see if the band can back him or not. If they can't, Mick will play Stones songs solo. This is an anniversary move. If they are solid, the band will play. It's all down to how well a sober Keith can keep it together.

That's my take on 2007-2012 and how it looks for 2013.

This is a very dramatic analysis, Rocky.

I´m not saying I don´t agree to a lot of your points, but if Mick indeed took the musical qualities of the Stones that seriously, I think he would have quit the band 10 years ago.

I´m not so sure Mick took SuperHeavy too seriously, either.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-05-05 19:18 by DandelionPowderman.

The thing is DandelionPowderman, a decade made quite a difference. The BRIDGES sessions and tour were a different Keith than the guy we see after ten more years of abuse and time catching up with him. Frustration levels during the BRIDGES session and tour would not be the same with taking a look at whether or not he wanted to bother creating new music with the guy, whether the guy was capable of delivering, and even more so how he would fare on the road. Those are real considerations that would not have been in place a decade earlier.

As for SuperHeavy, Mick always gives the impression of not taking music too seriously, but I believe he is extremely serious and disciplined. I don't think he would have spent as much studio time (expensive studio time at that compared to his Stones sessions during the same period) in 2008 and 2009 and then months of intensive mixing and overdubbing in 2011 to pull it together if he didn't think it had the potential to be big. The platform with Nokia and the UN connection were all deals that fell by the wayside that were under consideration for the sole purpose of launching SuperHeavy in a big way. Had it worked Stateside, they would be playing the Olympics this Summer. The Stones would be a past venture for finishing outtakes and celebrating anniversaries and reissues and creative repackaging and SuperHeavy would have represented his going concern in music. It didn't happen simply because the US market didn't care so Plan B is to see if the Stones can be knocked into shape well enough.

The period Fall 2007 to 2010 represent an unprecedented era of seeming semi-retirement for Jagger as far as the public was concerned. To be fair, one could say it has continued to the present. He has stayed busy, but it's been in the form of calculated efforts to determine what he can do next that will have the biggest impact. The idea of continuing the cycle of Stones albums and world tours were clearly no longer an option after the BIGGER BANG tour wrapped.

I know, Rocky, but he knew that in 2002 already, and Mick cut 4 tracks and did a world tour back then. There was a HUGE difference on the B2B-band and ther Licks-band - both Keith and Ronnie were beyond rusty on lots of gigs.

I understood that SuperHeavy booked studio time as part of a coming deal with Nokia - surely they must have gotten some expenses covered by insurance or something when they pulled out?

Personally, I think Mick knows that he´s pushing 70, and that he´ll never be the Mick Jagger the rock icon again, hence he knew that he wouldn´t be on new fans´ walls as a posterboy again with SuperHeavy

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Rocky and DandelionPowderman. Interesting discussion. It only took 32 pages. But good points all the way around.

I think Rocky is on to a lot here in terms of Mick's thinking over the past few years. I don't think the SNL appearance is necessarily the final flashpoint though. However, if he does choose to perform Stones songs there without the band, that may be a bridge too far. I don't think he'll ever be successful in claiming the Stones' legacy for himself alone.

..if Mick really thought Superheavy was his chariot to another "career" then he isn't as smart as we all think he is.....he just does things to piss off Keith....Dave Stewart has the same reaction on Keith as Kathie Lee Gifford had on American households when she was Regis Philbins cohost....or worse.... the poor fellow that used to go into an epileptic fit when he heard Mary Harts voice on TV....same difference.

To me, all the SNL gig means is someone (Lorne?) invited Mick on to host and he thought, sure, why not?
It's 2012 after all. Whether anyone else is there or not is irrelevant to the band's future, imo. Well, if they had already
started a tour, that would be a different matter, an obvious snub.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Love is strong..."


byTeafoe

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DandelionPowderman
...if Mick indeed took the musical qualities of the Stones that seriously, I think he would have quit the band 10 years ago.

And what part of 'there's no money in that' do you not understand!? Jagger is ONLY about the money, wrapped tightly in a blanket of nostalgic energy, hence his working on the Exile and Some Girls extras and getting Mick Taylor to add guitar to Plundered (and unfortunately not the others, including the one that has the worst guitar playing by Keith Richards on record ever, the new overdub on the Paint It Black sounding song).

That was the 'forward thinking' that UMG provided that Mick liked so much about signing with Universal. They must have forked over a ton of money for the catalog. There is no other reason to do it. They owe one more new release, right? Probably the supposed hits comp will be it.

Perhaps he is finally able to let go of the Stones being 'a forward moving band' and has noticed how bad Keith's playing has increased. Perhaps, as in maybe, it is time and the 'get togethers' are strictly the last page in the book for the movie they're doing. Charlie doesn't want his drums to blow up because maybe he's done doing the big tours. There's no reason for anyone to take him saying that seriously.

It is not only about the money. Money is a symptom.

Great discussion. Let's not forget that the Stones had touring contract with Michael Cohl during the Bridges to ABB era. That contract expired after ABB.
Jagger and Richrds had little to do with one another at that time. They even joke about the tour requirements of having distant dressing rooms and Mick was required to leave the stage during Keith's mini set. That little divide started in 1981. Chuck even served as a go between on set list and arrngements.

I think Rocky has a point and then some. I now believe that if the Stones perform on SNL then we get shows in 2013. If not then maybe there will be a show next year to mark the passage of time.

The sudden inclusion of MT and Ronnies gig with him in 2010 aswell as other bits of togetherness signal a move to reconcile, retool, and reform the band as a Stones with a dminished Keith or even no Keith at all.

The almost silent Kieth Richards is spooky. The guy was talking a mile a minute last fall. Now nothing. There have been speculations that another health setback occured. I guess we'll know on the 19th.

Great discussion. Let's not forget that the Stones had touring contract with Michael Cohl during the Bridges to ABB era. That contract expired after ABB.
Jagger and Richrds had little to do with one another at that time. They even joke about the tour requirements of having distant dressing rooms and Mick was required to leave the stage during Keith's mini set. That little divide started in 1981. Chuck even served as a go between on set list and arrngements.

I think Rocky has a point and then some. I know believe that if the Stones perform on SNL then we get shows in 2013. If not then maybe there will be a show next year to mark the passage of time.

The sudden inclusion of MT and Ronnies gig with him in 2010 aswell as other bits of togetherness signal a move to reconcile, retool, and reform the band as a Stones with a dminished Keith or even no Keith at all.

The almost silent Kieth Richards is spooky. The guy was talking a mile a minute last fall. Now nothing. There have been speculations that another health setback occured. I guess we'll know on the 19th.

Please. The Stones will never perform without Keith unless he is gone and it is a tribute, as for Stu. I don't think that Mick's SNL shot has anything to do with it. I think Lorne was digging for who could be a season ending host, and he came up with Jagger. Of course that sets up possibilities and speculation and Mick is no doubt enjoying that and, perhaps torturing Keith a bit. I do think that what he chooses to do could add fuel to the old fire/feud. Personally, I hope not.

It seems odd that with the band gathering immediately before in the same city Mick would choose to twist the knife by performing solo on SNL. Seems that might cast a pall over any Stones get-together.

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71Tele
It seems odd that with the band gathering immediately before in the same city Mick would choose to twist the knife by performing solo on SNL. Seems that might cast a pall over any Stones get-together.

I agree, but does it really matter that much if he does? The Stones can´t be nowhere near ready to perform on live television after one loose rehearsal in December anyway...

Might be that Keith wouldn´t like Mick singing Stones-songs on SNL with other musicians - but this time, it seems Keith wants the band to get together again, and he´ll bite the bullet this time, imo.

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Certainly - CERTAINLY! - Mick is going to do Everybody Needs Somebody To Love again...

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WeLoveToPlayTheBlues
Certainly - CERTAINLY! - Mick is going to do Everybody Needs Somebody To Love again...

Perhaps he´ll try Mr. Pitiful this time...

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rogue
The almost silent Kieth Richards is spooky. The guy was talking a mile a minute last fall. Now nothing. There have been speculations that another health setback occured. I guess we'll know on the 19th.

What health setback. He made 2 public appearances not long ago.You can say what you want about his playing. But his health appears quite fine.You really shouldn't be specualting on someone's health anyway. Espicially with nothing to back it up.

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rogue
I guess we'll know on the 19th.

Know what ?

Keep On Rolling

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rogue
Great discussion. Let's not forget that the Stones had touring contract with Michael Cohl during the Bridges to ABB era. That contract expired after ABB.
Jagger and Richrds had little to do with one another at that time. They even joke about the tour requirements of having distant dressing rooms and Mick was required to leave the stage during Keith's mini set. That little divide started in 1981. Chuck even served as a go between on set list and arrngements.

I think Rocky has a point and then some. I know believe that if the Stones perform on SNL then we get shows in 2013. If not then maybe there will be a show next year to mark the passage of time.

The sudden inclusion of MT and Ronnies gig with him in 2010 aswell as other bits of togetherness signal a move to reconcile, retool, and reform the band as a Stones with a dminished Keith or even no Keith at all.

The almost silent Kieth Richards is spooky. The guy was talking a mile a minute last fall. Now nothing. There have been speculations that another health setback occured. I guess we'll know on the 19th.

Keith is probably working...

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After all SNL would be the cheapest airplay for anything the Stones would like to present the next months to come.
I very much assume that there is also a big issue to cover losses via insurances. For such reasons tour and/or concert announcement may be kept secret just weeks or only a couple of months before. This also will reflect very late ticket sales in order to avoid high commission on insurances.
Even if Mick, Keith, Charlie, Ronnie might look healthy to their one off individual shows and presentations it may not prove enough for any Tour promoters to cover the risk for a whole big tour for such old lads whose health may change much quicker than being 30.

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Grison
After all SNL would be the cheapest airplay for anything the Stones would like to present the next months to come.
I very much assume that there is also a big issue to cover losses via insurances. For such reasons tour and/or concert announcement may be kept secret just weeks or only a couple of months before. This also will reflect very late ticket sales in order to avoid high commission on insurances.
Even if Mick, Keith, Charlie, Ronnie might look healthy to their one off individual shows and presentations it may not prove enough for any Tour promoters to cover the risk for a whole big tour for such old lads whose health may change much quicker than being 30.

Could it be that an SNL show might be a quick test to see if they can cut it live and what the response will be? As you said, it's cheap and easy to guest on SNL as opposed to booking a theater and hiring a crew.

Interesting to me that none of the usual side people are off to other parts of the world. I know they could fly in at the last minute and back them up.

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rogue

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Grison
After all SNL would be the cheapest airplay for anything the Stones would like to present the next months to come.
I very much assume that there is also a big issue to cover losses via insurances. For such reasons tour and/or concert announcement may be kept secret just weeks or only a couple of months before. This also will reflect very late ticket sales in order to avoid high commission on insurances.
Even if Mick, Keith, Charlie, Ronnie might look healthy to their one off individual shows and presentations it may not prove enough for any Tour promoters to cover the risk for a whole big tour for such old lads whose health may change much quicker than being 30.

Could it be that an SNL show might be a quick test to see if they can cut it live and what the response will be? As you said, it's cheap and easy to guest on SNL as opposed to booking a theater and hiring a crew.

Interesting to me that none of the usual side people are off to other parts of the world. I know they could fly in at the last minute and back them up.

SNL is a pretty big show. Seems like a serious gamble on their integrity... They do well, people are satisfied. They screw up, everyone will say the Stones are done. Its live, not pre-recorded. Jagger wouldn't take the chance unless he knew they were ready for it.

I really just don't get why Jagger is playing/hosting SNL at all. He doesn't have any new material of any kind or any news, aside from the Stones 50th anniversary. So he's gonna go on SNL and tout the 50th anniversary of the band, and play a solo show with some OTHER band, while the real deal practices down the road?

Drake

I find it interesting that all of the usual sources are not talking right now.
The Rolling Stones are assembled in NYC for rehearsals of some kind. Several members have club dates or TV shows booked and yet no one is talking-I mean really talking-about what they are up to. With Licks we all knew the Paris sessions were to rehearse and record new songs for the two disc set.

With ABB we knew they had gone to Toronto after a press conference to rehearse and test stage lighting, etc. in preparation.

Now we only get bits and pieces. Just enough to keep us guessing but little enough not to expose the larger plan.

Could it be that rumors of keith's demise have been exagerated for the media benefit?

I remember tuning into the BBC online back in November to hear Charlie and Ronnie talk about the outtake releases and the questions about the 50th. Then came the London rehearsals. The magnet sessions as they could be called.

Then there was Ronnie talking about NY rehearsals and rumours that Jagger was furious. Then we had Ronnie in AC. Mick Taylor is out and about, Bill Wyman was at the magnet sessions, Charlie is playing the Iridium, Mick played the White House and now gets booked to host and perform on SNL.

Don't forget that meanwhile London is nearing a lockdown with the Olympics. The Stones could conceivably still play at the games or just be in town for a small club show on July 12th as many have thought.

And yet... and yet... it is silent. We get confirmation from Stonesdoug, hell of guy by the way-met him at a show once-, that the Stones rehearsals have finished. In six days Mick will begin rehearsing with the cast of SNL.
I believe Mick Taylor's shows are before the SNL show date. I'm not saying MT will play SNL although I like the idea but he and Jagger are on pretty good terms.

More and more the pieces are falling into place for something major to happen.

With Licks everyone knew they were going to record in Paris but not everyone knew they recorded ten songs with Danny Saber previous to that.

@rogue - You have some solid points. Even though every article out there says plans have been 'delayed', the Stones playing on SNL still seems early compared to where they are at as a band. My hope is that the band is in much better form than we're being led to believe.

I hope something major is in store but I have a feeling we'll just get Jagger doing his thing with some other band. The last time Mick was on SNL one of my buddies said 'Are the Stones still together?'... I think its funny that the question continually pops up. If the Stones are still a band, and are about to celebrate their 50th anniversary in some form or another, how offensive for Mick to go on SNL with someone else, to celebrate.

Drake

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TeddyB1018
With Licks everyone knew they were going to record in Paris but not everyone knew they recorded ten songs with Danny Saber previous to that.

Yeah I remember you posting about the unknown Saber sessions before on here. Have you ever heard any of the tracks? I'm sure they were better than the four released songs. Any info. you are able to provide about those sessions would be greatly appreciated-by me at least. It's almost like those tracks comprise the great lost 21st century Stones album.

Another point is also that all major events and upcoming tours of the Rolling Stones have been announced in NYC since 1975. Its just food for thought. I don't think that such big announcements may happen, but it is quite obvious that members of the Rolling Stones happen to be in NYC in the same time span.

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Grison
Another point is also that all major events and upcoming tours of the Rolling Stones have been announced in NYC since 1975. Its just food for thought. I don't think that such big announcements may happen, but it is quite obvious that members of the Rolling Stones happen to be in NYC in the same time span.

I think it makes more sense for it to happen on SNL than not, given all the geographical coincidences.

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rogue
I find it interesting that all of the usual sources are not talking right now.
The Rolling Stones are assembled in NYC for rehearsals of some kind. Several members have club dates or TV shows booked and yet no one is talking-I mean really talking-about what they are up to. With Licks we all knew the Paris sessions were to rehearse and record new songs for the two disc set.

With ABB we knew they had gone to Toronto after a press conference to rehearse and test stage lighting, etc. in preparation.

Now we only get bits and pieces. Just enough to keep us guessing but little enough not to expose the larger plan.

Could it be that rumors of keith's demise have been exagerated for the media benefit?

I remember tuning into the BBC online back in November to hear Charlie and Ronnie talk about the outtake releases and the questions about the 50th. Then came the London rehearsals. The magnet sessions as they could be called.

Then there was Ronnie talking about NY rehearsals and rumours that Jagger was furious. Then we had Ronnie in AC. Mick Taylor is out and about, Bill Wyman was at the magnet sessions, Charlie is playing the Iridium, Mick played the White House and now gets booked to host and perform on SNL.

Don't forget that meanwhile London is nearing a lockdown with the Olympics. The Stones could conceivably still play at the games or just be in town for a small club show on July 12th as many have thought.

And yet... and yet... it is silent. We get confirmation from Stonesdoug, hell of guy by the way-met him at a show once-, that the Stones rehearsals have finished. In six days Mick will begin rehearsing with the cast of SNL.
I believe Mick Taylor's shows are before the SNL show date. I'm not saying MT will play SNL although I like the idea but he and Jagger are on pretty good terms.

More and more the pieces are falling into place for something major to happen.

Yes, fascinating isn't it?