Quote
stupidguy2
...
But HM, I love your photos! I hate disagreeing with you!

Hopefully we can disagreed sometimes, no big deal

HMN
StonesCave

I love grams work with the Burritos and his solo work too.
That video is kinda bad tho!

In fact this thread shows that an increasing number of people're frustrated with the existing "historical canon" of the Stones. In all these stories without exception there is something unpleasant,irksome about Jagger. If he is so untalented, envious, greedy, not valuing friendship, insincere, ruthless calculating manipulator stealing other people's ideas - how come he still has friends (some of them from the 60s, such as Chrissy Gibbs or Peter Whitehead who, btw, lived with him and Bianca at thier house in the south of France during Nellcote sessions), why he still is enigma for fans and media, why in the end, Richards - so white and fluffy - always wanted to work with him, not with Parson, Keys or Winos
I understand that Jagger himself is not interested in what they write about him, he follows the principle: "Do not explain, do not apologize." "All that is written about me is utmost bullshit, a complete lie" - that's all he has to say about this.
But we, his fans (and fans of the Stones too I guess) want to get a balanced presentation of Stones story, not focused on Richards iconography



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-12 15:30 by proudmary.

Due to his escalated heroin use, Keith was increasingly unavailable for work at Nellcote. Because Gram was a charismatic, knowledgeable fellow musician, he enabled that in a way that his other drug companion, Spanish Tony, couldn't, despite Keith having allègedly given Tony guitar lessons. So Mick could have been justified in viewing GP as a threat to the Stones (and Mick's livelihood).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-12 17:13 by Bliss.

The Gram Parsons bashing in this thread really saddens me, and makes me question this forum. There seems to be many posting here on Gram Parsons who know as much about him, his music, and country music in general, as the one poster who thinks he had blond hair at Nellcote. (There are scores of photos taken at Nellcote by Dominique Tarle and all of them show no variation of hair color other than dark brown!)

When I bought my first Gram record, the double album GP/Grievous Angel, I was so enamored that I went out and bought the remaining 6 albums in the Gram "must have" album list, and that is all I listened to for 2 months straight. I can think of no other artist that I did that with in my 46 years of music buying from 1966 to 2012.

The typical person who is confused about Parsons will always refer to his music as "country rock", "alternative country", or some other assumed ilk genre. Look...Gram Parsons sang 98% traditional country music...no rock about it.

The original poster comes on here bashing, and posting some corny two bit video of Gram Parsons and wants the whole board to judge him on this. Unbelievable.
It has been stated that "Rock" fans over a certain age are some of the most close minded people that there are. This thread is proving it.

All I can say is that I love Gram Parsons, and his music. There isn't anything that comes close in country music in my opinion. It was Parsons who took the red neck out of country music, and I will forever love him for that alone.

His influence is unending. And it just so happens that he was somehow intertwined with my favorite band of all time, The Rolling Stones.

Stonesrule has a bio online ? Can someone provide a link ?
Thank You

Quote
Chacho
The Gram Parsons bashing in this thread really saddens me, and makes me question this forum. There seems to be many posting here on Gram Parsons who know as much about him, his music, and country music in general, as the one poster who thinks he had blond hair at Nellcote. (There are scores of photos taken at Nellcote by Dominique Tarle and all of them show no variation of hair color other than dark brown!)

When I bought my first Gram record, the double album GP/Grievous Angel, I was so enamored that I went out and bought the remaining 6 albums in the Gram "must have" album list, and that is all I listened to for 2 months straight. I can think of no other artist that I did that with in my 46 years of music buying from 1966 to 2012.

The typical person who is confused about Parsons will always refer to his music as "country rock", "alternative country", or some other assumed ilk genre. Look...Gram Parsons sang 98% traditional country music...no rock about it.

The original poster comes on here bashing, and posting some corny two bit video of Gram Parsons and wants the whole board to judge him on this. Unbelievable.
It has been stated that "Rock" fans over a certain age are some of the most close minded people that there are. This thread is proving it.

All I can say is that I love Gram Parsons, and his music. There isn't anything that comes close in country music in my opinion. It was Parsons who took the red neck out of country music, and I will forever love him for that alone.

His influence is unending. And it just so happens that he was somehow intertwined with my favorite band of all time, The Rolling Stones.

So if you don't like Parsons then you're a basher and a close-minded person, good to know.

Well said Chaco. Nice post.I think it is fair to say that GP drew musical inspiration from the Stones via Keith and Mick, and they drew similar inspiration from Gram. Drug use hastened Gram's departure from Nellcote. Grams musical legacy though is substantial and can't be denied. Collaborations with the Byrds, followed by the Burrittos is testament enough. His solo albums were excellent, and he was able to put a great band around him to help channel his inspirations. The tone to Exile and part of its greatness had lots to do with Grams interpretation of American country music and the way the Stones translated it through their style.

this is a hell of a thread. very provocative. is there any doubt GP was a great songwriter?

he sure wasn't a team player, no doubt there. A rich kid, knew how to charm, could really sing..
unique voice, like Keith's. He couldn't take life, I guess. Why'd he do himself in?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-12 18:02 by duke richardson.

Quote
Chacho
The Gram Parsons bashing in this thread really saddens me, and makes me question this forum. There seems to be many posting here on Gram Parsons who know as much about him, his music, and country music in general, as the one poster who thinks he had blond hair at Nellcote. (There are scores of photos taken at Nellcote by Dominique Tarle and all of them show no variation of hair color other than dark brown!)

When I bought my first Gram record, the double album GP/Grievous Angel, I was so enamored that I went out and bought the remaining 6 albums in the Gram "must have" album list, and that is all I listened to for 2 months straight. I can think of no other artist that I did that with in my 46 years of music buying from 1966 to 2012.

The typical person who is confused about Parsons will always refer to his music as "country rock", "alternative country", or some other assumed ilk genre. Look...Gram Parsons sang 98% traditional country music...no rock about it.

The original poster comes on here bashing, and posting some corny two bit video of Gram Parsons and wants the whole board to judge him on this. Unbelievable.
It has been stated that "Rock" fans over a certain age are some of the most close minded people that there are. This thread is proving it.

All I can say is that I love Gram Parsons, and his music. There isn't anything that comes close in country music in my opinion. It was Parsons who took the red neck out of country music, and I will forever love him for that alone.

His influence is unending. And it just so happens that he was somehow intertwined with my favorite band of all time, The Rolling Stones.

A good, spirited defense...Still, I think his writing, although showing glimpses of brilliance, was uneven, and as been pointed out he was an unreliable band member and a bit of a hanger-on with regard to the Stones (though given the opportunity who wouldn't be?). I repeat, had he not died young and glamorous he would be evaluated more objectively.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-12 18:39 by 71Tele.

[www.gramparsonsproject.com]

Out of the mouths of Byrds.


GREAT ALBUM:





But really, didn't anyone get it was a put-on from the get-go? "Hippy Boy"? C'MON!
The pre-Vegas costumes? This is show business at its most exploitative ... I can't
believe ANYONE really bought Parsons' hypocrisy with that one song ... but that's
the power of marketing. So what if Parsons and The Burritoes pushed country into
kitsch territory ... it had been bordering on that for years. He and the band
were experimenting, starting with The Byrds, by blending pop with that form,
even though it was The Eagles that broke through. It's all positioning, marketing.
"What's been done?" "What hasn't been done?" "What will work here?" "England's
Newest Hit-Makers"? OK, if YOU say so ... but I'LL be the judge. This is the
business of hype, a proven model that works with well-heeled "hipsters",
those who use these tools to push records, those who hold the strings.
Parsons got the music side right most of the time, it was the presentation
that needed the work.

Parsons had talent, but we know the stories of all the pop bands who dabbled in
country but didn't bridge. The Byrds. Buffalo Springfield. Parsons. The Burritoes.
I'd say Parsons made the twin mistakes of preaching to the wrong choir and not
sticking it out long enough. His vision of country rock, in my opinion, was that
the visual style didn't quite match the quality of the songs within. Drug-popping
hippies ain't gonna be bothered with a bunch of California rockers with crosses
embroidered on their backs singing songs such as "The Christian Life"and the Bible
thumpers at The Grand Ol' Opry are gonna be offended. Plus, Parsons must've
been around Brian Jones long enough to catch the "fame infatuation" disease.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-12 19:08 by TheDailyBuzzherd.

That theory that Mick was jealous of Gram or any of Keith's friends is a load of crap! Mick knew Keith's friends were all stoners and had the potential of causing serious harm to the Stones, like busts that could end their touring. Mick is a businessman and to have junkies hanging around was just plain BAD business! End of story.

Quote
mickschix
That theory that Mick was jealous of Gram or any of Keith's friends is a load of crap! Mick is a businessman and to have junkies hanging around was just plain BAD business! End of story.

What she said.

No Chacho, I don't "think" Gram had blonde hair the day I saw him at Nellcote.
I KNOW.

As a matter of fact, I met Gram months in my hometown of Los Angeles even before he met the Stones His hair was brown then.

The combination of peroxide and sitting in the sun was a popular fad then. It turned the hair blonde. I assure you Dominique Tarle was not at Nellcote at the time.

However, it seems to me that currently in this Forum, the percentage of people who really don't enjoy TRUTH is increasing. I am not the only poster here who feels the same way.

So it's really pointless for me to offer any actual truth or share anything in the spirit of camaraderie.

Quote
TheDailyBuzzherd
Plus, Parsons must've
been around Brian Jones long enough to catch the "fame infatuation" disease.

Mick and Keith were just as stricken with that disease.

___________________________
The Brian Jones Experience

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
TheDailyBuzzherd
Plus, Parsons must've
been around Brian Jones long enough to catch the "fame infatuation" disease.

Mick and Keith were just as stricken with that disease.

True, at least they didn't miss gigs just to schmooze!

Oh, Jagger's got it in spades ... "25 x 5" sometimes was irritating
to watch 'cuz Mick's too camera-aware ...

Quote
TheDailyBuzzherd

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
TheDailyBuzzherd
Plus, Parsons must've
been around Brian Jones long enough to catch the "fame infatuation" disease.

Mick and Keith were just as stricken with that disease.

True, at least they didn't miss gigs just to schmooze!

Brian didn't miss any gigs "just to schmooze!".

___________________________
The Brian Jones Experience

I do like the Flying Burrito Bros. which developed the country-rock Bakersfield sound. As others mentioned Gram was a child of financial privilege. I do think he has been mythologized beyond his talent, but that happens a lot in rock n roll.

No one has better capitali$ed on the Gram Parsons myth than Emmylou Harris...although she did perform with him, there is a myth, in part perpetuated by her quasi-romantic songs, that she and Gram had a romance, which they did not...if I were Gram I would've been on that like white on rice.

Quote
Eleanor Rigby
i'm kind of surprised people who love Exile and the country-styled tunes from that masterpiece, dont like Gram's work - especially with the Burritos.
Check out Hot Burrito...excellent album.
The guy definately had talent and i think Chris Hillman pointed out that he wanted to be like Mick Jagger.

I tried listening to those records. I was a Stones fan, so I listened to anyone who came into contact with him. I don't hear Exile on anything he did.
I hear countryish pop, sung in a very weak voice, and tepid musical arrangements. Sorry...

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-12 19:23 by treaclefingers.

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
TheDailyBuzzherd

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
TheDailyBuzzherd
Plus, Parsons must've
been around Brian Jones long enough to catch the "fame infatuation" disease.

Mick and Keith were just as stricken with that disease.

True, at least they didn't miss gigs just to schmooze!

Brian didn't miss any gigs "just to schmooze!".

Keith says so ... he doesn't fergit nuthin'!

Quote
stupidguy2

Quote
Eleanor Rigby
i'm kind of surprised people who love Exile and the country-styled tunes from that masterpiece, dont like Gram's work - especially with the Burritos.
Check out Hot Burrito...excellent album.
The guy definately had talent and i think Chris Hillman pointed out that he wanted to be like Mick Jagger.

I tried listening to those records. I was a Stones fan, so I listened to anyone who came into contact with him. I don't hear Exile on anything he did.
I hear countryish pop, sung in a very weak voice, and tepid musical arrangements. Sorry...

My experience was similar, Stupidguy2. It was such a disappointment listening to GPs highly mythologized and praised work.

Quote
GetYerAngie

Quote
stupidguy2

Quote
Eleanor Rigby
i'm kind of surprised people who love Exile and the country-styled tunes from that masterpiece, dont like Gram's work - especially with the Burritos.
Check out Hot Burrito...excellent album.
The guy definately had talent and i think Chris Hillman pointed out that he wanted to be like Mick Jagger.

I tried listening to those records. I was a Stones fan, so I listened to anyone who came into contact with him. I don't hear Exile on anything he did.
I hear countryish pop, sung in a very weak voice, and tepid musical arrangements. Sorry...

My experience was similar, Stupidguy2. It was such a disappointment listening to GPs highly mythologized and praised work.

Mine also. I heard of him through this website and checked him out. It was a huge disappointment and I quickly moved on. I do see some Mickisms in that video, only he looks kind of goofy.

Quote
TheDailyBuzzherd

Keith says so ... he doesn't fergit nuthin'!

Keith is full of poop.

___________________________
The Brian Jones Experience

Quote
proudmary
In fact this thread shows that an increasing number of people're frustrated with the existing "historical canon" of the Stones. In all these stories without exception there is something unpleasant,irksome about Jagger. If he is so untalented, envious, greedy, not valuing friendship, insincere, ruthless calculating manipulator stealing other people's ideas - how come he still has friends (some of them from the 60s, such as Chrissy Gibbs or Peter Whitehead who, btw, lived with him and Bianca at thier house in the south of France during Nellcote sessions), why he still is enigma for fans and media, why in the end, Richards - so white and fluffy - always wanted to work with him, not with Parson, Keys or Winos
I understand that Jagger himself is not interested in what they write about him, he follows the principle: "Do not explain, do not apologize." "All that is written about me is utmost bullshit, a complete lie" - that's all he has to say about this.
But we, his fans (and fans of the Stones too I guess) want to get a balanced presentation of Stones story, not focused on Richards iconography

I think that image of Mick persists simply because he never tries to counter the attack. He remains enigmatic, leaving others - Keith, Marianne, Jerry Hall - to do all the pontificating about who he is. The people who talk a lot sometimes create their own history, and that becomes the accepted 'truth' because it remains unchallenged.
Mick chooses to not give a shit what people think, at least that's the public perception he gives.
And when you don't talk about yourself, you leave it wide open for others to distort reality.
Look at it this way: maybe a distorted public perception is preferable to Mick because he'd rather keep some semblance of privacy. His public life/personal events have been so detailed, maybe he wants to keep his true self to himself, and to those who respect that truth. Not all his friends dish and maybe they are true friends.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-12 20:32 by stupidguy2.

Well, thank you DailyBuzzherd, I am taking my bow!

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-12 22:06 by swiss.

Quote
stonesrule
No Chacho, I don't "think" Gram had blonde hair the day I saw him at Nellcote.
I KNOW.

As a matter of fact, I met Gram months in my hometown of Los Angeles even before he met the Stones His hair was brown then.

The combination of peroxide and sitting in the sun was a popular fad then. It turned the hair blonde. I assure you Dominique Tarle was not at Nellcote at the time.

However, it seems to me that currently in this Forum, the percentage of people who really don't enjoy TRUTH is increasing. I am not the only poster here who feels the same way.

So it's really pointless for me to offer any actual truth or share anything in the spirit of camaraderie.

No, I wanna hear more! thanks for writing about the exile-era, very cool

Quote
Redhotcarpet

Quote
stonesrule
No Chacho, I don't "think" Gram had blonde hair the day I saw him at Nellcote.
I KNOW.

As a matter of fact, I met Gram months in my hometown of Los Angeles even before he met the Stones His hair was brown then.

The combination of peroxide and sitting in the sun was a popular fad then. It turned the hair blonde. I assure you Dominique Tarle was not at Nellcote at the time.

However, it seems to me that currently in this Forum, the percentage of people who really don't enjoy TRUTH is increasing. I am not the only poster here who feels the same way.

So it's really pointless for me to offer any actual truth or share anything in the spirit of camaraderie.

No, I wanna hear more! thanks for writing about the exile-era, very cool

Not pointless at all. Give us the truth. What we have on this forum is too much speculation. An actual fact from someone who was actually there is like a nugget of gold in a big pile of...dirt.

Thanks 711Tele...BUT I think I want to take a rest from all those "speculators" for a time. I find them tedious.