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lem motlow
great post hbwriter-

let me tell you something,when i first came to this sight a couple of years ago i felt at times i was communicating with a group of robots who had been programmed in a boardroom at jane roses office.

its gotten much better,people started asking questions like if keith was the "heart and soul" of the band and "lived for the stones" then why did he choose a girl over a bandmate in 67,drugs over the future of the band in 77 and fight with mick over "the great betrayal of the solo album" a claim that sort of unravelled when someone posted audio of him saying"solo albums,yeah we'll all do them,i've got about 200 songs that wont work with the stones"-keith said this in 1971.

but one of the most outrageous,ridiculous,and downright stupid premises put forth during the great keith richards myth building and history rewrite act of the 1980s was the gram parsons fairy tale.

this sound familiar?-mick was "jetsetting" and into high society and wouldnt hang around the "real people" in keiths crowd

the adult version-keiths house was filled with low-lifes,sycophants,junkies and hangers on who eventually stole his guitars and turned him into the police.its a miracle jagger ever stepped foot in the place, and who are these "high society people" mick was hanging around with?
i've never thought of david bowie,andy warhol and lou reed as "high society"

but the gram parsons myth-....i didnt know whether to laugh or just stare in disbelief.the story went-mick was "jealous" of gram because he was keiths friend and he was so young and talented.mick was very "stand-offish" around gram...uuummm ok

meanwhile here on earth-mick jagger was in his late 20s and was the most famous rockstar in the world not named lennon or mccartney.[i dont think i have to recap his career up to that point for you] but mick was jealous of a guy nobody knew except that he used to be the 3rd most famous one of the byrds.....yeah that makes sense,if you're so high all the time that you cant think straight.

jagger didnt like the guy because he was a sycophant that was hanging around his songwriting partner and might try to lay claim to a songwriting co-credit if keith came up with something while this minor talent was hanging off his coattails.mick was fighting allen klein for the rights to the songs they had,he didnt need any more headaches.
to this day idiots are trying to give him credit for the stones country flavored songs,songs he had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of.

the stones,especially mick had listened to country music since they were children and in the EARLY 60s,did shows with george jones.
jones is held in the same regard by country music fans as chuck berry is to rockers.one of his guitar players taught the stones the nashville tuning that is used on wild horses.later the myth became that gram had come up with it,yeah right.

just the thought that anyone thinks for a second that some trust fund baby that went around pretending to be hank williams turned the f/cking stones on to country music....its sickening

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Naturalust
My last word on this terribly misguided thread I promise....

Lem it might be more understandable that Mick was somewhat jealouse of Gram because Gram had a tremendous amount of MUSIC in him. He obviously needed Keith at the time because he provided the musical direction and was the leader in the musical sense. Seeing Keith get it on musically with someone who he didn't have control over...well some folks could see how that could be threatening. Mick was a star yes but certainly has inhibitions and such like the rest of us, especially since Keith held most of the musical cards for the Rolling Stones.

As far as choosing a girl over a bandmate that is laughable. Brian was ABUSING Anita. Beating her up, getting physically violent. It would be more correct to say he rescued a girl FROM his abusive bandmate. Besides Anita is a goddess and I doubt anyone in her vision at that time could have held up to their own will.

As far as Keith choosing drugs over the Stones, it's quite obvious you don't understand the disease that is addiction. Keith was sicker than most, that I'll give you. But choice has NOTHING to do with it. Grow up please do some homework on addiction before making such comments.

Finally the solo deal...so Keith saying in 1971 that they would all do solo records some day makes it OK for Mick a decade later to USE the contacts and very company that the Stones were negotiating with to piggyback his solo deal? Keeping those negotiations secret from the rest of the band? That's sleazy dealing no matter how you slice it. Keith had every right to take Mick to the mat over that crap.

Let me repeat here that Keith says "Gram turned me onto country music" and "Gram had a tremendous influence on the stones country ballads of the time". Not sure what is so hard to swallow about that, I choose to take Keith at his word until I hear different first hand.

All that being said I personally respect Mick's methods of dealing with internal band problems internally and not shooting arrows with the media and public in general. That's classy and deserves my respect.

Hb since you are so clever at getting access to Rock Stars I will expect you to get an interview with Mick some day and ask him some real questions about these issues you seem so anxious to present as truth and real insight. The attack you have made on Gram Parsons has absolutely no factual basis and although the Gram ledgend may be overblown to some extent, it does not deserve the kind of slandering you have done. Just my opinion as a long time Stones fan and musician. peace

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memphiscats
Gram, Rest In Peace.
Amen!

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Naturalust
As far as Keith choosing drugs over the Stones, it's quite obvious you don't understand the disease that is addiction. Keith was sicker than most, that I'll give you. But choice has NOTHING to do with it. Grow up please do some homework on addiction before making such comments.

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Naturalust
Now I am laughing my ass off. Did someone just call me a foolish and obnoxious Gram groupie? Hb if you take the time to actually read what I wrote is is far from an attack. I have no problem with you expressing your opinion but please spare us the insulting remarks and childish drool while posing as an in the know Rock Journalist. That title includes a responsibility to stick to the facts and not color the pieces with such obnoxious banter.

btw: I've got more Rock Star friends on my speed dial than you have ever interviewed by using whatever means you do to gain access. Most of them are foolish and obnoxious Gram groupies too so tread lightly, it's a small world out there and things have a tendency to bite you in the ass when you least expect it. peace (it's more of a plea when directed your way)

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Naturalust


btw: I've got more Rock Star friends on my speed dial than you have ever interviewed by using whatever means you do to gain access. Most of them are foolish and obnoxious Gram groupies too so tread lightly, it's a small world out there and things have a tendency to bite you in the ass when you least expect it. peace (it's more of a plea when directed your way)

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Naturalust
btw: I've got more Rock Star friends on my speed dial than you have ever interviewed by using whatever means you do to gain access.

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GumbootCloggeroo

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Naturalust
btw: I've got more Rock Star friends on my speed dial than you have ever interviewed by using whatever means you do to gain access.

That is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on here in all my years. Bragging like a little teenager. Hilarious.

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stonesrule
"This is my confession mama..."

I don't have ANY rock stars on speed dial.

I don't even have speed dial.

Sometimes it takes as long as 3 whole days to get a reply from a rock star.

Guess I'm just not very popular.

Woe is me.

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Max'sKansasCity

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filstan
Hbwriter succeeded in his quest as a troll. Nuf said?

nuf said

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Naturalust
with all due respect Lem those robots are better than the robotic conservative rock star ideology that you go into so much detail about here. It was 1972 is case you don't recall, everyone associated with Rock was kind of sleazy and druggie, Mick included! Taking this from a 2012 what is politically correct standpoint is pretty far off the mark. Bianca probably has more influence on Mick's move into high society that anyone and we all know where that led.

hbwriter says some downright slanderous things about Gram that are obviously way off base and way too ugly to be anything other than just plain crap.

Now the idiots who say Gram had the biggest influence in the Stones playing Country music I assume you mean Keith Richards. Of course unless you want to say he is full of it then I suggest you re-read Life. Keith very clearly credits Gram with just that. Until we get a better first hand source (hbwriter is certainly not that) I suggest you stick to what the Stones themselves have said about Gram. Everything else is just hot air. peace

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Naturalust
My last word on this terribly misguided thread I promise....

Lem it might be more understandable that Mick was somewhat jealouse of Gram because Gram had a tremendous amount of MUSIC in him. He obviously needed Keith at the time because he provided the musical direction and was the leader in the musical sense. Seeing Keith get it on musically with someone who he didn't have control over...well some folks could see how that could be threatening. Mick was a star yes but certainly has inhibitions and such like the rest of us, especially since Keith held most of the musical cards for the Rolling Stones.

As far as choosing a girl over a bandmate that is laughable. Brian was ABUSING Anita. Beating her up, getting physically violent. It would be more correct to say he rescued a girl FROM his abusive bandmate. Besides Anita is a goddess and I doubt anyone in her vision at that time could have held up to their own will.

As far as Keith choosing drugs over the Stones, it's quite obvious you don't understand the disease that is addiction. Keith was sicker than most, that I'll give you. But choice has NOTHING to do with it. Grow up please do some homework on addiction before making such comments.

Finally the solo deal...so Keith saying in 1971 that they would all do solo records some day makes it OK for Mick a decade later to USE the contacts and very company that the Stones were negotiating with to piggyback his solo deal? Keeping those negotiations secret from the rest of the band? That's sleazy dealing no matter how you slice it. Keith had every right to take Mick to the mat over that crap.

Let me repeat here that Keith says "Gram turned me onto country music" and "Gram had a tremendous influence on the stones country ballads of the time". Not sure what is so hard to swallow about that, I choose to take Keith at his word until I hear different first hand.

All that being said I personally respect Mick's methods of dealing with internal band problems internally and not shooting arrows with the media and public in general. That's classy and deserves my respect.

Hb since you are so clever at getting access to Rock Stars I will expect you to get an interview with Mick some day and ask him some real questions about these issues you seem so anxious to present as truth and real insight. The attack you have made on Gram Parsons has absolutely no factual basis and although the Gram ledgend may be overblown to some extent, it does not deserve the kind of slandering you have done. Just my opinion as a long time Stones fan and musician. peace

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lem motlow

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Naturalust
My last word on this terribly misguided thread I promise....

Lem it might be more understandable that Mick was somewhat jealouse of Gram because Gram had a tremendous amount of MUSIC in him. He obviously needed Keith at the time because he provided the musical direction and was the leader in the musical sense. Seeing Keith get it on musically with someone who he didn't have control over...well some folks could see how that could be threatening. Mick was a star yes but certainly has inhibitions and such like the rest of us, especially since Keith held most of the musical cards for the Rolling Stones.

As far as choosing a girl over a bandmate that is laughable. Brian was ABUSING Anita. Beating her up, getting physically violent. It would be more correct to say he rescued a girl FROM his abusive bandmate. Besides Anita is a goddess and I doubt anyone in her vision at that time could have held up to their own will.

As far as Keith choosing drugs over the Stones, it's quite obvious you don't understand the disease that is addiction. Keith was sicker than most, that I'll give you. But choice has NOTHING to do with it. Grow up please do some homework on addiction before making such comments.

Finally the solo deal...so Keith saying in 1971 that they would all do solo records some day makes it OK for Mick a decade later to USE the contacts and very company that the Stones were negotiating with to piggyback his solo deal? Keeping those negotiations secret from the rest of the band? That's sleazy dealing no matter how you slice it. Keith had every right to take Mick to the mat over that crap.

Let me repeat here that Keith says "Gram turned me onto country music" and "Gram had a tremendous influence on the stones country ballads of the time". Not sure what is so hard to swallow about that, I choose to take Keith at his word until I hear different first hand.

All that being said I personally respect Mick's methods of dealing with internal band problems internally and not shooting arrows with the media and public in general. That's classy and deserves my respect.

Hb since you are so clever at getting access to Rock Stars I will expect you to get an interview with Mick some day and ask him some real questions about these issues you seem so anxious to present as truth and real insight. The attack you have made on Gram Parsons has absolutely no factual basis and although the Gram ledgend may be overblown to some extent, it does not deserve the kind of slandering you have done. Just my opinion as a long time Stones fan and musician. peace

at the risk of piling on ...

1. so the guy who had just put out in order- beggars banquet,let it bleed and sticky fingers was intimidated by the MUSIC gram had in him.yeah that must've been scary for little old mick....and keith held most of the cards musically? are you f/cking kidding me? how far up this guys ass are you?thats like saying mccartney held all the cards over john lennon.

2.i dont care if brian was feeding anita to sharks like a scene out of a bond movie, keith couldve just told brian to knock it off and paid her way home and sent her on her way.no matter how you slice it he hooked up with the girl without considering its effect on the band.he was a dupe too,anita was interested in the stones, period.give the girl credit she scored a trifecta.years later when asked who the love of her life was she said"brian"

3.he chose drugs over the stones.the excuses are just that,lame ass excuses.

4. if he didnt like the record deal, man up ,tell mick to his face and dont sign the damn thing. dont go outside the band and cry to the media for the next 20 years.people wanna hear good songs,they dont wanna here about how mick was mean and tried to trick you.

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Max'sKansasCity
As we see the true purpose of this bait thread....