You are telling me what you are hearing and that hearing didn't notice a missing part. This shows you don't listen to it as a song, but, and again going by what you yourself are saying, listen to the guitars mostly.

___________________________
The Brian Jones Experience

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His Majesty

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whitem8
In your opinion. But the version on GYYYO is pure bliss. The guitar dueling is in credible, and I for one don't even notice the edit. Why, because it is all just so sublime. I haven't heard a better version yet.

This tells me you are not listening to it as a song. The unedited version is better because it is complete, the song and the performance, but the definitive version is the studio vesion.

You're ELECTING to hear it that way. I hear it as a song, no matter what version it is. Which, gee, it is. The "unedited version"? You mean the LP version? What makes you think that's 'unedited'? Why is that "complete" and a better performance over the live version that fits the live album? If you didn't read that a verse was missing from the Ya-Ya's version you wouldn't even know it. It took me YEARS to even realise that a entire verse was missing.

Why? Oh simple - because it was so goddamn good I didn't notice.

If you had never heard the LP version until now you'd of thought it was a mistake. The Ya-Ya's version is supreme.

The full version is on bootleg.

The studio version is a distinctive and original piece of writing, music and performance. The piano zooms through the chord changes much like the character of the song through zooms through history. The spikey sound and note choice of the solo is the character of the songs mischevious intent...

___________________________
The Brian Jones Experience





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-22 06:49 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty
You are telling me what you are hearing and that hearing didn't notice a missing part. This shows you don't listen to it as a song, but, and again going by what you yourself are saying, listen to the guitars mostly.

Now you are just being juvenile and silly, especially by flipping me off. Are we back on the middle school playground? You are electing to inject your personal opinions and bias. You like the studio version. GREAT! GOOD FOR YOU! I am so happy for you. I prefer the live version and think of it as the definitive version as I have never heard any version surpass the beauty of the GYYYO version. It is one of the most sublime moments in the Stones released catalog. Brilliant.

The is a light hearted .

Don't take it so serious.

___________________________
The Brian Jones Experience

And yes, I am in love with the guitars on this song. And feel they create an entire new dimension to the song. Nicky is great! But I always wished for more up front guitar throughout the whole song, and I got it, On GYYYO.

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whitem8
And yes, I am in love with the guitars on this song. And feel they create an entire new dimension to the song. Nicky is great! But I always wished for more up front guitar throughout the whole song, and I got it, On GYYYO.

I like Keith's fills and talking guitar solo.

___________________________
The Brian Jones Experience

If I had to pick one it would be the YaYa's version...1st time I heard it I was absolutely astonished that 1 year after BB was released they would do such a different version live. Astonishing, and to me Keith's solo (on YaYas) is just plain evil...perfection! MT's is ok too

I have two favourite versions of SFTD...both the GYYYO version, and the quite different, mood-wise, version from Altamont 1969

Well, FWIW, Roy Carr said in his book that SFTD and SFM are better then the originals. BTW, whatever happened to Roy Carr? Is he still around?

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Erik_Snow
I have two favourite versions of SFTD...both the GYYYO version, and the quite different, mood-wise, version from Altamont 1969

Right on Erik! Those are my top two favs as well! Love them live from the 69 tour.

This has been my favorite version of Sympathy ever since Ya Yas was released. I couldn't care less that a verse was edited out. The way they transformed the album version into a guitar driven rocker is brilliant. Keith's partial-chord licks during the intro and verses are sublime. The whole band just cooks. And the way Keith solos and the breaks it down and tosses it to Mick Taylor to finish is some of the most gripping moments of rock ever recorded. Perhaps my favorite Keith solo of all time, simple as it is. It smokes with attitude!

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Erik_Snow

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MCDDTLC
Hey Guys,

The Maysles Bros. DO have SFTD on film!!! they have shown the complete concert
a couple of times for selected audiences and one of them said he is trying to get the Stones to allow release of the film... Keep your fingers crossed!!!

MLC

So what change have taken place since the 2008 screening ? :
In 2008, this was posted

Date: January 7, 2008 19:15
Damn!!! The folks over at Mayles org. are saying: NO plans on releasing this
extra footage they have... One shot deal from the other night.

Ah, I get it. Do a one off screening to keep the rumour mill fed so that fans don't forget about the "never to be released" footage. Sounds like guerilla marketing!

I've got to agree with the comments regarding GYYO version being by far the best version. I'm not too concerned at the lack of a verse or whether that makes it a complete song or not. I make my decision on what I hear, not what is missing and as many of you are saying the GYYO version is amazing, the guitar work from both Keith and Taylor is just breathtaking and the way they interchange is spine tingling, Charlie and Bill keep it chugging along perfectly and of course Jagger is on top form throughout. I had always assumed there must be shit loads of over dubs but to hear that this isn't the case just lifts it to an even higher level. I'm surprised it didn't conjure up lucifer at some point cos it is simply demonic

Interesting that there may be a piece of film footage of this somewhere, and I hope that it sees the light of day before I shuffle from this mortal coil. Of course it would have been even better with the exra verse but come on Mr Majesty you can't use that as a reason to say it is not a fantastic version with the Stones on top of their game. The studio version is also brilliant but the proof of a great song is how it works live and for them to have adapted it to that is magical in every way.

Now I have to set about finding who has the live footage and begging them to release it. Many thanks for all your erudite comments and debate...and don't forget....brothers, sisters, why are we fighting and what for!



'some things, well, I can't refuse'

The Ya Ya-version is simple and brilliant.

Still, I prefer the original studio version, both because of the groove, which seems impossible to re-create live, and because of Mick's fantastic vocals.

I really liked the SW/UJ-tour version as well. After that, it became a bore live, imo.

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DandelionPowderman
I really liked the SW/UJ-tour version as well. After that, it became a bore live, imo.

I really think it became a drag after 1990, too. And I even get the feeling that the guitarplayers also thinks that. But the choir and everything was very impressive in 1989/1989 when one never had heard a live version sounding like that before.

Yep, agreed...it did become a bore and that, in my opinion, is largely due to the move away from the core members to the vegas band. Keith wasn't capable of reproducing anything worthy of the early guitar work and the 75.76 tours were the last good performances of the song. Sympathy for the Devil R.I.P



'some things, well, I can't refuse'

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crumbling_mice
Yep, agreed...it did become a bore and that, in my opinion, is largely due to the move away from the core members to the vegas band. Keith wasn't capable of reproducing anything worthy of the early guitar work and the 75.76 tours were the last good performances of the song. Sympathy for the Devil R.I.P

Nothing wrong with this. However, after this it went downhill.





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Ok, I'll give you that one DPM...it is a good version, but even on this Keith is straying into noodling a bit and it hasn't quite got the bite of the early live versions.



'some things, well, I can't refuse'

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crumbling_mice
Ok, I'll give you that one DPM...it is a good version, but even on this Keith is straying into noodling a bit and it hasn't quite got the bite of the early live versions.

Check out the Montreal 1989 version. It features an even better Keith solo than the Atlantic City 89 version

Meanwhile I think Keith did some excellent playing in 1989; and that the arrangement of SFTD was impressive; when seeing them live back then - I must admit that I hardly ever listen to 1989/1990 shows, now later on. The sound of the instruments - especially the guitars, and the choir + keyboards makes it into something I just wanna stay clear of.

But the SFTD solo is great. Here's the Montreal version

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Erik_Snow

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crumbling_mice
Ok, I'll give you that one DPM...it is a good version, but even on this Keith is straying into noodling a bit and it hasn't quite got the bite of the early live versions.

Check out the Montreal 1989 version. It features an even better Keith solo than the Atlantic City 89 version

Meanwhile I think Keith did some excellent playing in 1989; and that the arrangement of SFTD was impressive; when seeing them live back then - I must admit that I hardly ever listen to 1989/1990 shows, now later on. The sound of the instruments - especially the guitars, and the choir + keyboards makes it into something I just wanna stay clear of.

But the SFTD solo is great. Here's the Montreal version

It's good, but steer clear off the Dallas version Hints on what to come...

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His Majesty

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whitem8
Yeah, even with the edit, GYYYO's Sympathy is the definitive version. Incendiary.

An incomplete version of a song is no definitive version.

Really, what is your point? Basically all studio versions RS has released has been reowrked, edited and overdubbed. Going by your standards nothing is the definitive version apart from unedited studio outtakes. You can might as well say that the 8CDbox "Satanic Sessions" is the "definitive Satnic Majesties" as the released album is just an "incomplete edited version".

A version is a version, and none is the definitive, end of.

Sure, SFTD on GYYYO would have been even better if they didn't cut away that verse. But that wouldn't change YOUR mind about what the definitve version is, we all know that - very very well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-22 13:30 by Erik_Snow.

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Father Ted

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Erik_Snow

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MCDDTLC
Hey Guys,

The Maysles Bros. DO have SFTD on film!!! they have shown the complete concert
a couple of times for selected audiences and one of them said he is trying to get the Stones to allow release of the film... Keep your fingers crossed!!!

MLC

So what change have taken place since the 2008 screening ? :
In 2008, this was posted

Date: January 7, 2008 19:15
Damn!!! The folks over at Mayles org. are saying: NO plans on releasing this
extra footage they have... One shot deal from the other night.

Ah, I get it. Do a one off screening to keep the rumour mill fed so that fans don't forget about the "never to be released" footage. Sounds like guerilla marketing!

But as the screening took place in 2008, it's possible that they actually thought that this material would be included on the 40th anniversary edition of GYYYO, released in 2010; but that they somehow either changed their minds, or weren't allowed to include as much footage as they wanted to.
It's not necessarily "marketing" for something they are going to release later.
I would be surprised if we got even ANOTHER version of GYYYO or Gimme Shelter DVD by now, as they allready put oput the Criterion release and the 40th anniversary edition.

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Erik_Snow

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Father Ted

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Erik_Snow

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MCDDTLC
Hey Guys,

The Maysles Bros. DO have SFTD on film!!! they have shown the complete concert
a couple of times for selected audiences and one of them said he is trying to get the Stones to allow release of the film... Keep your fingers crossed!!!

MLC

So what change have taken place since the 2008 screening ? :
In 2008, this was posted

Date: January 7, 2008 19:15
Damn!!! The folks over at Mayles org. are saying: NO plans on releasing this
extra footage they have... One shot deal from the other night.

Ah, I get it. Do a one off screening to keep the rumour mill fed so that fans don't forget about the "never to be released" footage. Sounds like guerilla marketing!

But as the screening took place in 2008, it's possible that they actually thought that this material would be included on the 40th anniversary edition of GYYYO, released in 2010; but that they somehow either changed their minds, or weren't allowed to include as much footage as they wanted to.
It's not necessarily "marketing" for something they are going to release later.
I would be surprised if we got even ANOTHER version of GYYYO or Gimme Shelter DVD by now, as they allready put oput the Criterion release and the 40th anniversary edition.

well there were rumours at the time that Midnight Rambler, Stray Cat, and 1 other song were going to be the "extras" on the 40th anniversary DVD. But something got in the way and they put the acoustic numbers and UMT as the extras.

Might not be a MSG DVD but perhaps Altamont ? And I know alot of people will complain that it's bad taste, but they can edit out the killing part...

Back to SFD, yes I agree, Altamont & MSG versions are the greatest live ones. Studio version is still a killer...

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Eleanor Rigby
I know alot of people will complain that it's bad taste, but they can edit out the killing part...

I almost spit out my coffee when I read that! HILARIOUS!

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Erik_Snow

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His Majesty

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whitem8
Yeah, even with the edit, GYYYO's Sympathy is the definitive version. Incendiary.

An incomplete version of a song is no definitive version.

Really, what is your point? Basically all studio versions RS has released has been reowrked, edited and overdubbed. Going by your standards nothing is the definitive version apart from unedited studio outtakes. You can might as well say that the 8CDbox "Satanic Sessions" is the "definitive Satnic Majesties" as the released album is just an "incomplete edited version".

A version is a version, and none is the definitive, end of.

Sure, SFTD on GYYYO would have been even better if they didn't cut away that verse. But that wouldn't change YOUR mind about what the definitve version is, we all know that - very very well.

My point is that the unedited live version is better than the edited version which appears on Ya Ya's. Edited or not, when Taylor starts soloing he makes them sound much like any other blues/rock band from the time though.

Don't be a dafty, a studio recording is different than a chopped up live version.

___________________________
The Brian Jones Experience





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-22 15:25 by His Majesty.

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WeLoveToPlayTheBlues

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Eleanor Rigby
I know alot of people will complain that it's bad taste, but they can edit out the killing part...

I almost spit out my coffee when I read that! HILARIOUS!

ok..keep it in...
btw drink beer.

One of my fav Mick Taylor solos of all time.

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His Majesty
My point is that the unedited live version is better than the edited version which appears on Ya Ya's.

Duh....if that was your point, nobody here would have disagreed with you. Check your previous posts

The full lenght version has never been released, so it's obviously not worth mentioning when people discuss what they think it the definitive version of SFTD. I really shouldn't have to explain you this.....why pretend to be so slow ? That's not your style.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-22 16:02 by Erik_Snow.

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Erik_Snow

Duh....if that was your point, nobody here would have disagreed with you.

Erm, in a round about way some have.

My other point that the studio version is the definitive version was already laid out nice and clear. It is the fully integrated reading of the song.

On Ya Ya's the song mostly acts as a mere vehicle to showcase and highlight some nice guitar playing, going by whitem8's last post on page 1 of this thread, successfully so. That's no definitive version of a song though IMO because on Ya Ya's the song and it's full lyrical content and meaning has been chopped up to accommodate said showcase on the LP.

Edited or not, it's a nice variation, nothing more, nothing less.

___________________________
The Brian Jones Experience





Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-22 17:19 by His Majesty.