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hbwriter

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His Majesty
The threads point only works if you view things through stones tinted glasses.

or if you know how to read

and/or have minimal knowledge about rock bands on tour in late 1960's.

* His Majesty, Prince Jones smiled as he moved among the crowd *



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-12 22:36 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty

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hbwriter

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His Majesty
The threads point only works if you view things through stones tinted glasses.

or if you know how to read

and/or have minimal knowledge about touring rock bands in late 1960's.

i don't think this premise (if you understand it) has been debunked here - not even close - but we can respectfully disagree -

"Rock critic Robert Christgau called it "history's first mythic rock and roll tour",while rock critic Dave Marsh would write that the tour was "part of rock and roll legend" and one of the "benchmarks of an era."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-12 22:37 by hbwriter.

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hbwriter
i don't think this premise (if you understand it) has been debunked here - not even close - but we can respectfully disagree -

"Rock critic Robert Christgau called it "history's first mythic rock and roll tour",while rock critic Dave Marsh would write that the tour was "part of rock and roll legend" and one of the "benchmarks of an era."

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hbwriter
The first true arena tour by a major band, one that featured actual PAs, lights and a portable stage. This tour essentially created what we think of as an arena show today

Led Zeppelin's tours as headline act from Spring - Autumn 1969 all before The Rolling Stones 1969 US tour debunk the premise of the thread and the lacking in fact opinionated babble of rock critics.

* His Majesty, Prince Jones smiled as he moved among the crowd *



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-12 23:13 by His Majesty.

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hbwriter
some other interesting bits on this tour - a dedicated thematic poster

[upload.wikimedia.org]

and some of what became the first modern "bootleg" recordings

Dylan's 'Great White Wonder' came out in July '69, and The Beatles' 'Kum Back' was out from September '69.

Presumably you mean it was the first concert tour to be featured on 'live' bootleg recordings (ie 'Live R Than You'll Ever Be') ?

When Zeppelin toured in 1969 they played smaller venues. For example in L.A. in August they played at the 8,000 seat Anaheim Convention Center with opening act Jethro Tull. March 1970 was their first (full size) arena show in Southern CA.

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hbwriter

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His Majesty

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hbwriter

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His Majesty
The threads point only works if you view things through stones tinted glasses.

or if you know how to read

and/or have minimal knowledge about touring rock bands in late 1960's.

i don't think this premise (if you understand it) has been debunked here - not even close - but we can respectfully disagree -

"Rock critic Robert Christgau called it "history's first mythic rock and roll tour",while rock critic Dave Marsh would write that the tour was "part of rock and roll legend" and one of the "benchmarks of an era."

I think if it wasn't for Altamont and its presense in the Gimme Shelter movie, the '69 tour would have been just another Stones tour, as forgotten in major press as the '67 or '70 tour. The tour is historical as it is liked to be seen as the end of an era. And for the Stones, it turned them into the Greatest R&R band in the world.

It is a simple fact that there where other bands touring like the Stones did in 69 well before November 69, including own PA, crew and lighting. Cream, Hendrix, Led Zep, just to name a few. But these tours did not close with a big bang, and are mostly forgotten.

Mathijs

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His Majesty

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hbwriter
i don't think this premise (if you understand it) has been debunked here - not even close - but we can respectfully disagree -

"Rock critic Robert Christgau called it "history's first mythic rock and roll tour",while rock critic Dave Marsh would write that the tour was "part of rock and roll legend" and one of the "benchmarks of an era."

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hbwriter
The first true arena tour by a major band, one that featured actual PAs, lights and a portable stage. This tour essentially created what we think of as an arena show today

Led Zeppelin's tours as headline act from Spring - Autumn 1969 all before The Rolling Stones 1969 US tour debunk the premise of the thread and the lacking in fact opinionated babble of rock critics.

You mean when they played the whisky? The fillmores east and west? The bvoston tea party? Do
Maybe you need a little critical babble (and while I get that you are trying to insult me- I am not a "rock critic"

not to get into a flame war, i like your stuff a lot and you know the stones very well. but i've been to both places, too. so one way to identify the location is the PA. did LA have it on the stage like they do in this picture? plus, never saw this picture until recently in a MOJO, or uncut, or classic rock, whatever and they identify the town as phoenix.

also just noticed. look at the seats and how the go up. the forum has that walkway all around the arena but this one does not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-12 23:38 by sundevil.

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hbwriter
You mean when they played the whisky? The fillmores east and west? The bvoston tea party? Do
Maybe you need a little critical babble (and while I get that you are trying to insult me- I am not a "rock critic"

How about Detroit Olympia and Boston Garden which Led Zeppelin played in a month or so before The Rolling Stones did?

You posted some quotes by rock critics, my comment about them is about them.

* His Majesty, Prince Jones smiled as he moved among the crowd *

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sundevil
not to get into a flame war, i like your stuff a lot and you know the stones very well. but i've been to both places, too. so one way to identify the location is the PA. did LA have it on the stage like they do in this picture? plus, never saw this picture until recently in a MOJO, or uncut, or classic rock, whatever and they identify the town as phoenix.

also just noticed. look at the seats and how the go up. the forum has that walkway all around the arena but this one does not.

hey- your info on phoenix was really interesting - i had no idea they were gone for so long! back to this - there's no walkway up top at the forum - just around the center "senate" area -

look at this zeppelin 70s shot - at the Forum - i cobbled together a comparison - see how it matches? The crescent arc of the seats - (and magazines get stuff wrong all the time)





Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-12 23:51 by hbwriter.

..................................................................................................... Ethan A Russell

ROCKMAN

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Rockman


..................................................................................................... Ethan A Russell

the GARDEN!

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Gazza

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hbwriter
some other interesting bits on this tour - a dedicated thematic poster

[upload.wikimedia.org]

and some of what became the first modern "bootleg" recordings

Dylan's 'Great White Wonder' came out in July '69, and The Beatles' 'Kum Back' was out from September '69.

Presumably you mean it was the first concert tour to be featured on 'live' bootleg recordings (ie 'Live R Than You'll Ever Be') ?

yes, Gazza--thank you

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His Majesty

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hbwriter
You mean when they played the whisky? The fillmores east and west? The bvoston tea party? Do
Maybe you need a little critical babble (and while I get that you are trying to insult me- I am not a "rock critic"

How about Detroit Olympia and Boston Garden which Led Zeppelin played in a month or so before The Rolling Stones did?

You posted some quotes by rock critics, my comment about them is about them.

gotcha - thank you clarifying - and those arena one offs by Zeppelin prove nothing in my opinion - they were on a debut run - a total piecemeal adventure - that tour changed nothing in terms of how bands tour - it was a cut and paste job - it was primarily a small to mid-size venue run - very scattershot without any sort of grand plan, theme, gear, staging, etc.

And look at the Zep dates - *90%* of them are clubs/small theaters! How can you seriously offer that up? Is this the tour you are referencing?

If it's the tour later in the year - that's a mish mash of festivals, small theaters, a few arenas etc - they could not command an arena tour in their first year of existence!



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-13 00:02 by hbwriter.

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Rockman


............................................................ Ethan A.Russell....

this is from the moment that purportedly shows Johnny Thunders at the show - near center with long dark hair, i believe

.............................................................................................................. Ethan A Russell

ROCKMAN

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hbwriter

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His Majesty

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hbwriter
You mean when they played the whisky? The fillmores east and west? The bvoston tea party? Do
Maybe you need a little critical babble (and while I get that you are trying to insult me- I am not a "rock critic"

How about Detroit Olympia and Boston Garden which Led Zeppelin played in a month or so before The Rolling Stones did?

You posted some quotes by rock critics, my comment about them is about them.

gotcha - thank you clarifying - and those arena one offs by Zeppelin prove nothing in my opinion - they were on a debut run - a total piecemeal adventure - that tour changed nothing in terms of how bands tour - it was a cut and paste job - it was primarily a small to mid-size venue run - very scattershot without any sort of grand plan, theme, gear, staging, etc.

Lol, you are talking crap now.

Is a 4th tour of USA counted as a debut run?

One offs? How many arena's do they need to play for them to not be deemed one off's?

* His Majesty, Prince Jones smiled as he moved among the crowd *

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His Majesty

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hbwriter

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His Majesty

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hbwriter
You mean when they played the whisky? The fillmores east and west? The bvoston tea party? Do
Maybe you need a little critical babble (and while I get that you are trying to insult me- I am not a "rock critic"

How about Detroit Olympia and Boston Garden which Led Zeppelin played in a month or so before The Rolling Stones did?

You posted some quotes by rock critics, my comment about them is about them.

gotcha - thank you clarifying - and those arena one offs by Zeppelin prove nothing in my opinion - they were on a debut run - a total piecemeal adventure - that tour changed nothing in terms of how bands tour - it was a cut and paste job - it was primarily a small to mid-size venue run - very scattershot without any sort of grand plan, theme, gear, staging, etc.

Lol, you are talking crap now.

Is a 4th tour of USA counted as a debut run?

One offs? How many arena's do they need to play for them to not be deemed one off's?

No disrespect intended - and maybe i didn't state my premise clearly enough (though some seem to be right on it) but I really think the point of this thread is eluding you - it's not to say that bands had never played arenas - of course they had - but a "new" band like Zeppelin in 1969 would not have mounted something as sophisticated and programmed as what the Stones did in 1969 - arguably the only other band that could have done it, i think, would have been the Beatles - this isn't about How many arenas" some band played - it's HOW THEY PLAYED THEM. And the Stones tour was groundbreaking in a number of ways - from sound, lights, merch, a film, costumes, set opening acts, financing, etc - it was far more organized and arranged than any other tour up until then and the effects of this tour no doubt resonated beyond 1969 - (cue someone to say "Other bands had movies!!" it's the SUM TOTAL of everything that went into that tour - but if you really think that the Zeppelin tour(s) in 69 was just as substantial and influential as what the Stones did - well, whatever - you are entitled to that. As for my end, personally I find that to be a silly argument.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-13 00:39 by hbwriter.

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hbwriter

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sundevil
not to get into a flame war, i like your stuff a lot and you know the stones very well. but i've been to both places, too. so one way to identify the location is the PA. did LA have it on the stage like they do in this picture? plus, never saw this picture until recently in a MOJO, or uncut, or classic rock, whatever and they identify the town as phoenix.

also just noticed. look at the seats and how the go up. the forum has that walkway all around the arena but this one does not.

hey- your info on phoenix was really interesting - i had no idea they were gone for so long! back to this - there's no walkway up top at the forum - just around the center "senate" area -

look at this zeppelin 70s shot - at the Forum - i cobbled together a comparison - see how it matches? The crescent arc of the seats - (and magazines get stuff wrong all the time)

It's the L.A. Forum, not Phoenix. Click the link below for a recent Forum picture
and you'll see the column and back wall.


[www.google.com]

Chris, nothing is eluding me, I just think you are throwing far too much 'credit of influence' towards one tour by The Rolling Stones.

* His Majesty, Prince Jones smiled as he moved among the crowd *



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-13 00:56 by His Majesty.

............................................................................................................. Ethan A Russell

ROCKMAN

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His Majesty
Chris, nothing is eluding me, I just think you are throwing far too much 'credit of influence' towards one tour by The Rolling Stones.

that's fine, man- i just don't think the examples you cite support your point of view - but whatever- again, agree to disagree is always ok

for the record - i've been critical on more than a few levels of the stones' history/personnel - i don't think i lack objectivity with the rolling stones - i genuinely believe the point of this thread to be true, not via any fan-based emotion - but rather based on the facts presented - anyway - good rest of the weekend, His Majesty and all

Excellent and interesting post. I have no forensic or analytical observations relating to the basic premise. All I wish to say is the Photographs bring back so many many memories and re-inforce my totally biased opinion that the Rolling Stones performed the most powerful and impressive live music in the history of rock. Now pouring a huge dram and lighting a decent havana and listening to Ya Ya`s. Thanks.

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belld
Excellent and interesting post. I have no forensic or analytical observations relating to the basic premise. All I wish to say is the Photographs bring back so many many memories and re-inforce my totally biased opinion that the Rolling Stones performed the most powerful and impressive live music in the history of rock. Now pouring a huge dram and lighting a decent havana and listening to Ya Ya`s. Thanks.

here's to ya!

Well, I know what Chris (Hbwriter) is trying to say. This was the first tour in 3 years by any of the Big Three (Beatles, Stones, Dylan), and 1969 certainly wasn't gonna be like 1966. Even if Cream, Hendrix, or whoever was playing arena before, this was certainly gonna be more scrutinized and remembered (even if Altamont had turned out as peaceful Monterey Pop). Funny, too, that the tour wasn't that long and some key markets were left out.

But I think what shouldn't be overlooked is the Beatles 1964 summer tour is really where all this began. That was the first tour of one-nighters in basketball/ hockey arenas around the States that we all grew up with and know about.

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tomk
Well, I know what Chris (Hbwriter) is trying to say. This was the first tour in 3 years by any of the Big Three (Beatles, Stones, Dylan), and 1969 certainly wasn't gonna be like 1966. Even if Cream, Hendrix, or whoever was playing arena before, this was certainly gonna be more scrutinized and remembered (even if Altamont had turned out as peaceful Monterey Pop). Funny, too, that the tour wasn't that long and some key markets were left out.

But I think what shouldn't be overlooked is the Beatles 1964 summer tour is really where all this began. That was the first tour of one-nighters in basketball/ hockey arenas around the States that we all grew up with and know about.

agree--that Beatles tour was the precursor - the Stones 69 tour was just a much more evolved version of that - a fully functional update - the next level which set the stage for what bands did in the 70s

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hbwriter

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Rockman


............................................................ Ethan A.Russell....

this is from the moment that purportedly shows Johnny Thunders at the show - near center with long dark hair, i believe

not purportedly...that's absolutely Johnny Thunders

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Rollin' Stoner

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hbwriter

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Rockman


............................................................ Ethan A.Russell....

this is from the moment that purportedly shows Johnny Thunders at the show - near center with long dark hair, i believe

not purportedly...that's absolutely Johnny Thunders

Sylvain has told me that Johnny definitely was at the Garden for at least one of the shows - though it was before they had met and so Syl said that's what Johnny always told him

He's noticeable in the movie as well.



(I like the way this link helpfully points out where Mick is too, in case there was an Amazonian tribesman somewhere who wouldnt have known otherwise....)

And the first Stones tour to feature high ticket prices.