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kowalski

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SweetThing

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kowalski
Don't know if he can still play or not, but it looks like he doesn't want to play the guitar anymore. Let him just sing and hire Jeff Beck and Eric Clapton as deluxe replacements.

3

Actually, it would be great to see Jagger, Wyman, Watts, Taylor, Beck wouldn't it?

All of them have some connections. They should invite every guitar player that played with the Stones at some time, Taylor, Clapton, Beck, Jimmy Page ...

If you get too carried away, it's no longer the Stones. Clapton and Page wouldn't work for me. Taylor, Wyman, and maybe Beck would be really cool. Keith could then just do some rhythm and a few vocals. He could do more on days when his body is cooperating, just don't depend on him night after night. Naturally, it ain't the Stones
w/ out him. Mick could get in physical shape and be ready to go. Isn't that what he's done for every tour since 1981?. With the extra guys in there, then you could drop a horn or two and Blondie or Bernard and make it more back to the basics.

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superrevvy

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aprilfool
Don't know how old are you but if you are more than 50, you can't do the same as when you were 20. We call that LIFE!

plenty of musicians play better at 51 than at 20. plenty of people do lots of
things better at 51 than they did at 20.

athletics is the only thing that everybody does better at 20 than 51 (although
in the case of jagger, that would still be a close call. his athleticism at
a disciplined age 51 was still amazing. even versus his undisciplined age 20 self).

Hey, I am 52 years old and I'm doing some things better than at 20 and I don't practice atletics.

my guess is that how much the rolling stones should do this year is being
somewhat left up to the fans. my further impression is that there is still
clear majority support for there being some kind of tour, but that that support
has somewhat diminished after this performance by keith. i have to admit that it
may have moved me into the "undecided" column.

I think it is also diminished by the performance from, òut of breath`Jagger!!
jeroen

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JumpinJeppeFlash

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bleedingman
As I posted on the video thread - Expressing an honest, informed opinion is not "bashing". We are all fans. Keith played 10 times better blues on the first Stones albums than he does today. It saddens me to see this BECAUSE I LOVE THE MAN. I'm willing to bet that he is also sad and frustrated that his skills have deteriorated to the extent that he is below beginner levels now. And that is a fact. I am very happy that Keith is still alive, if not exactly kicking. He has been a huge part of my life since I was 10 years old (I'm 58 now). He has given me tremendous joy through all those years. I'm just sorry that he can't do it any more. Again, I'd bet good money that he's even sorrier.

Totally agree, after seeing this it´s clearer than ever that he just can´t do it anymore, those of you here that don´t understand that probably don´t play guitar. Keith is having very big problem with his fingers and coordination, it´s obviously great to see the man on stage but those of you that more or less demand him to go on a tour with stones one more time, just forget it. He played really bad sometimes on ABB and now he playes even worse so i really hope they don´t do anything more. It´s enough now, we have been spoilt by the stones with big tours and concerts all over the world for many years, but many people here seem to think that it will go on and on forever. It wont and i for sure don´t want too se Keith like this on a big stage making a fool of himself, would be terrible.

I have to agree with this. Much as it pains me to admit it, I really don't think Keith's got the manual dexterity and coordination for a tour. I'm sure he is more aware of his limitations than any on this board. It took guts for him to get onstage with his peers - and those who have looked up to him - knowing he can't cut it on guitar like he used to, but, hey, it was for Hubert and not Stones fans.

I'm happy that he's still alive and into his music. I can live without another tour. Keith is the powerhouse of the Stones. It would be insulting to bring in big names - and / or Mick Taylor - to cover for him. Let Jagger tour with Jeff Beck should he so want, but let's not adulterate the Stones and demean Keith because of health issues.

I'm sure Keith's still got plenty music in him, but I for one wouldn't want to either see him fluff the intros to the warhorses (and God knows I've seen him do enough of that over the years and loved the way he never took it seriously) or bring in some highly paid hired hand to play Keith's parts.

Interesting to see him playing slide. I'm sure Keith will be able to adapt his style to accommodate his limitations and I for one happen to like many guitarists with very simple styles. I just don't see him churning out the hits on a stadium tour again.

The bit about old bluesmen playing until they drop isn't entirely true. I've seen plenty guitarists - black and white - who were considerably past their sell by date and were trading on past reputation rather than their then current abilities.

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corriecas
I think it is also diminished by the performance from, òut of breath`Jagger!!
jeroen

You're so ... predictable ...

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treaclefingers

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corriecas

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carlostones10
Thank you very much. How a blues man, an old blues man, sounds fantastic. How a Rolling Stone I don´t know.

But i loved the blues man Keith.

right!!!!
Come on keef, play the blues!!!
You were great in NYC!!
thanks a lot, and dont blame the people who bash you.
they dont know what they are talking about
jeroen

While I agree with you...and ironic post given you're constant whining about MJ.

let me whine about jagger. Liked Keefs performance better, and i sensed his feeling, making music with a heart.
I dont feel thhis when i see jagger. Thats why i wine, and im gonna whine about Jagger, until he changes, .
jeroen

This has been one hell of a thread. Those of you getting caught up in the whole rock vs blues thing... You are missing it. The problem is that Keith can barely play the blues, not that his guitar work wasn't showy. No one is expecting a sympathy solo on Rooster. We were all hoping to have our fears put to rest and that simply hasn't happened.

They do not need to tour.

They need to play one final show and make it the biggest concert in history. Keith can play sitting down. Let Taylor and Wood cover solos. It will be great. He can still play, just not like a young 60-year old!

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seitan
When one of the greatest guitar players of all time dies - Hubert -

say what? hubert was a capable and somewhat influential bluesman...a sideman to one of the blues giants...but one of the greatest players of all time? ha. gimme a break.

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corriecas

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treaclefingers

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corriecas

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carlostones10
Thank you very much. How a blues man, an old blues man, sounds fantastic. How a Rolling Stone I don´t know.

But i loved the blues man Keith.

right!!!!
Come on keef, play the blues!!!
You were great in NYC!!
thanks a lot, and dont blame the people who bash you.
they dont know what they are talking about
jeroen

While I agree with you...and ironic post given you're constant whining about MJ.

let me whine about jagger. Liked Keefs performance better, and i sensed his feeling, making music with a heart.
I dont feel thhis when i see jagger. Thats why i wine, and im gonna whine about Jagger, until he changes, .
jeroen

You're gonna whine about Jagger until he changes? Won't happen. At the same time, also Keith's playing won't change for the better.

There you have it. For their legacy, it probably will be better not to tour.

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alimente
There you have it. For their legacy, it probably will be better not to tour.

and you can bet the farm the stones themselves have long-since figured that out...

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StonesTod

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alimente
There you have it. For their legacy, it probably will be better not to tour.

and you can bet the farm the stones themselves have long-since figured that out...

and that's a safe bet...

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StonesTod

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seitan
When one of the greatest guitar players of all time dies - Hubert -

say what? hubert was a capable and somewhat influential bluesman...a sideman to one of the blues giants...but one of the greatest players of all time? ha. gimme a break.

Sideman to TWO of the blues giants - Muddy Waters and Howling Wolf - Somewhat influental..I would say that Howling Wolf and Muddy are more than somewhat influential..Muddy and Wolf had a huge impact - there for there´s millions and millions of blues guitar players all around the world who have been influenced by their work - and so question is: Who plays guitar on those recordings, whose guitar it is that millions of blues fans are studying; Hubert Sumlin, my friend. - that makes him one of the greatest guitar players of all time - Now,To make my point clear for you: I could say the same thing about Johnny Ramone of the Ramones - who hardly played more than three chords on his guitar, but the Ramones had a huge influence on the rock music. He did his thing - and it was important and great thing to do. It´s not only how fast you play that matters - there´s other values in guitar playing too: style, class, imagination, - and the value of passing out ideas to others - The impact on the history - Hubert Sumlin was important, you might call him sideman yes, but lot of times the sidemen are the ones that make the star shine on that spotlight in stage. Now, where would Elvis be without Scotty Moore ?

argument rejected. muddy waters' association with hubert was very brief. and wolf was already a legend long before his association with hubert. hubert didn't really have that much of an impact on the wolf in terms of his contribution to the idiom. and yeah, muddy and wolf were pretty damned influential...that's not the argument.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-25 21:41 by StonesTod.

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flacnvinyl
This has been one hell of a thread. Those of you getting caught up in the whole rock vs blues thing... You are missing it. The problem is that Keith can barely play the blues, not that his guitar work wasn't showy. No one is expecting a sympathy solo on Rooster. We were all hoping to have our fears put to rest and that simply hasn't happened.

They do not need to tour.

They need to play one final show and make it the biggest concert in history. Keith can play sitting down. Let Taylor and Wood cover solos. It will be great. He can still play, just not like a young 60-year old!

Yep, that's the essence.

PLEASE no long tour with Blondie covering Keith's ass.

One final show, Taylor and Wyman back in the fold. Three guitars. Worldwide broadcast to TV or cinemas. It would even justify another live CD and DVD/BlueRay!

At least this would be affordable for everyone of us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-25 22:11 by alimente.

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corriecas

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treaclefingers

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corriecas

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carlostones10
Thank you very much. How a blues man, an old blues man, sounds fantastic. How a Rolling Stone I don´t know.

But i loved the blues man Keith.

right!!!!
Come on keef, play the blues!!!
You were great in NYC!!
thanks a lot, and dont blame the people who bash you.
they dont know what they are talking about
jeroen

While I agree with you...and ironic post given you're constant whining about MJ.

let me whine about jagger. Liked Keefs performance better, and i sensed his feeling, making music with a heart.
I dont feel thhis when i see jagger. Thats why i wine, and im gonna whine about Jagger, until he changes, .
jeroen

Then let other people whine about Keith's deficiencies. And go cut yourself a big slab of cheese to go with that whine. Better to not cry on an empty stomach.

To the people trying to equivocate Jagger being out of breath with these clips of Keith:

Jagger was not out of breath during the ABB tour. Not in 2005 and not in 2007. Jagger's live performing skills haven't been in question for the past half decade.

The reason I question Keith's ability to play, and that I also feel free to opine that nothing in this recent batch of footage points to anything other than a continued deterioration of his once epic skills, is because the decline has been in evidence for over five years.

If they do tour, I hope whoever covers Keith is actually on stage.

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StonesTod
argument rejected. muddy waters' association with hubert was very brief. and wolf was already a legend long before his association with hubert. hubert didn't really have that much of an impact on the wolf in terms of his contribution to the idiom. and yeah, muddy and wolf were pretty damned influential...that's not the argument.

Ok, - I wish you lovely weekend and all. Maybe, youre right - I dont know.

I posted my opinion after feeling dissapointed about how little news Hubert's death made. He was one of the last living blues men that had an influence on likes of Beatles, Clapton and Keef... When the whole world is crying over Whitney - nothing wrong with that, - but its sad to see that deaths of Hubert Sumlin ( or the MC5 bass player Michael Davis) hardly even got noticed.

It seems that media values the record sales and glamour much more - than what these musicians have done in terms of art. I noticed that when i realised that most of the media focused on the money, drugs, fame, aspect of Whitney Houston´s life. And not the art itself.

I felt that Hubert was one of the greatest guitar players of all time - (due to his work with Wolf and Muddy) - I happen to be Howling Wolf fan. It´s not a question of who is better or worse - it was more the question of Hubert Sumlin deserving more attention in the media for his work.

Seitan, you are fairly spot on. You and I both know that if he was starting out today, Sumlin wouldn't stand a chance. The industry is flailing, trying to figure out where their audience is. FM radio speaks worlds about the state of the music 'business'.

Can anyone comment on whether the gig was filmed professionally on any level?

I went to the show last night, and it was an amazing time. It was a bit heartbreaking to see how arthritis and time have diminished Keith's great playing. While his voice was absolutely perfect for Little Red Rooster and Spoonful, his chops are sadly gone. Keith has earned the right to do whatever he wishes musically and artistically , and I'll always be first in line for anything he does, but I do think his days as a preforming guitarist are behind him.

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corriecas
Liked Keefs performance better

Me too... But only partly because I was THERE!

More video to come soon... from 2nd set only... I was trying to save recording memory and I thought that the battery might be low.

Looking at the footage, I'm neither upset or dissapointed. I'm surprised Keith went with the acoustic slide on "Little Red Rooster". I honestly thought his fingers were no longer able to fit through the slide! His playing on that was extremely straightforward...nothing fancy but I applaud his efforts. "Spoonful" doesn't exactly have much room for him to explore, guitar wise. The main riff completely overtakes the entire song leaving hardly any room for much soloing. Even Clapton's solos during the song left me cold.

Either way, this is proof just how much time off can deteriorate Keith's abilities. Charlie has it right...you stay home, you get worse. So you go out and play. Keith does not do that. And while he sits around, his fingers get colder and colder, harder for them to move at all. Forget the solos and the leads...can Keith still play a guitar tuned to open G? Can he still strike "Start Me Up" or "Brown Sugar" If he can't...then the show's over.

I've said it before: Keith has to come to terms with his limitations. If he realizes this and makes accommodations for it--the overall sound will improve. If he keeps chugging along like he thinks he's 30 years old (like he's been doing the last 2 tours)...we're in for a mess.

Call me crazy, but somehow I suspect a legendary musician like Keith Richards doesn't need ANY advice from a know-it-all named "Justin"

Guitar playing habilities might have worsened because of arthritis, because you cannot play fast, and because bending strings might be painful. But KR's problems goes farther. He is not able to play simple licks , his guitar language has almost dissapeared, even with swollen fingers you can play slow licks, with a variety of them depending on your guitar skills. But this man has a deeper problem, maybe in his brain.
Anyway he has sung LRR with passion a very very fine. The slide thing was very very basic, and poor, just the 3 notes of each of the 3 chords.I could'nt hear and see the spoonful performance because iit was boring and sad.
Maybe is another kind of musician in his latter days, i don't know, but i feel very dissapointed since the last 10 years.
Maybe this new mkind of musician makes us happy with music ala toronto 77.Does he feel like a crooner?, does he think that he is a real blues old man?

"how great it would be for the Stones to get back to basics, cut out the crap,
return to smaller venues and play the blues" -
i don't know how many times i've read that ilk of wish on iorr. just can't be satisfied, huh

love and light to Hubert Sumlin - and yes you bet the man was a major influence on guitarists.
thanks and praises, love and light



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-25 23:54 by with sssoul.

With all due respect for the musicians involved but LRR sounds like a complete (and unrehearsed) trainwreck. It seems a bit unfair too judge Keith's current guitarskills on this particular rendition. Then again I'm not overly impressed with most of Keith's live/improvised guestappearances he has done as a guitarplayer through the years. He sounds so much better in a rehearsed, trusted group situation.

www.rsundercover.eu

Maybe his rythm chops still work

I'm heading to the bar - you guys make my head hurt.

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schillid
Me too... But only partly because I was THERE!

schillid honey, please tell us how you managed to be there! i'll make popcorn ...

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71Tele
Look, there is a simple and very elegant solution for the "Keith problem" on guitar. Bring in Taylor and you have three bona fide Rolling Stones guitarists on stage. You simultaneously fill out the guitar section while also paying tribute to 43 years of the bands' legacy. Keith could lay back a bit and not have as much pressure to carry the band. Far better than Blondie or Jeff Beck (ridiculous) or any other solution.

I am thinking Jeff Beck could perhaps fit the bill in some ways, but yes, your point is spot on. With Taylor, they can go out as "The Rolling Stones" and still pull it off. With someone else, even Blondie or Waddy, you are introducing a foreign element that never was really a genuine part of the Stones identity.

Taylor actually returns something to the core that has been lost for many years.