Apologies for the length of this elaborate post but I feel that this has to be said – and said in detail...please just skip to the end if it is too long.

The Rolling Stones may have made better, more essential and significant albums than Some Girls in their history, but never a more important one. Sure, 1968’s brilliant Beggar’s Banquet pulled them out of the psychedelic cul-de-sac they had painted themselves into with Their Satanic Majesties Request and thrust them back into the forefront of rock’s most vital era, but by 1978 the Stones had been in a perceptible 5 year decline in cultural and artistic relevance. As much as true-blue fans love and champion Goat’s Head Soup, It’s Only Rock And Roll, and Black And Blue (and to a lesser extent 1977’s Love You Live) the Rolling Stones in the mid-1970’s were perceived as slipping slowly away from the upper echelon of commercially, artistically, and culturally relevant rock and roll bands. Their massive tours were spectacular celebrations but their cultural currency was perceptibly diminished from only a few years past. Their albums were getting very mixed reviews and the band seemed artistically adrift – especially after Mick Taylor left in late 1974. For a fan like me, arguing with peers that the Stones were still the best band in the world (as essentially meaningless as that argument was) during those years was seemingly an exercise in faith over reason. They were being outsold by bands like Aerosmith, The Doobie Brothers, Foreigner, Boston, and Bad Company – not to mention elites like the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Led Zeppelin, and Pink Floyd – and had not created a really great album since Exile. 1976’s Black and Blue was eclectic and funky and totally irrelevant, with different guitar lineups on nearly every track. When the punks appeared late in that era and kicked the Stones to the curb as another creaky relic from a self-indulgent, bloated rock music scene the casual fan could be forgiven for thinking that the Stones’ moment had passed. By late 1977 / early 1978 – with punk and disco at their cultural apotheosis – the Stones seemed a bit passé.

And then in the summer of 1978 The Rolling Stones changed the entire narrative arc of their career. To be young and alive in that summer meant you had one soundtrack to your days and nights: the Stones’ Some Girls. A pithy, exhilarating montage of disco, garage slop, punk, R&B, Blues and New Wave, Some Girls was the Stones’ detonation back into cultural, artistic, and commercial relevance. The album seemingly took everything that was in the air at the time and blasted it onto vinyl. Some Girls perfectly captured the Zeitgeist...it defined the moment. Every die-hard fan who stuck with them through their mid-70’s wane was thrilled and felt justified in their faith, and everybody who had written them off as yesterday’s papers was back on the bandwagon with two feet in. The Stones had recaptured their magic and proper place in the rock pantheon.

The back-story is fascinating: In late 1977 and early 1978 the Stones – pushed to proving their relevancy to the rock audience by the younger generation of peers and punkers – re-grouped in Paris and conjured one of their most artistically fertile periods of studio creativity. Track after new track burned with renewed energy, ferocity and resolve. One can hear in famous bootlegs of those Pathe Marconi Studio sessions – like the definitive 5CD Girls Pills & Powders – how inspired, fierce and focused the Stones were in that period leading up to Some Girls. The Stones had something to prove.

Therefore one would imagine that over 3 decades after the original release a Deluxe Box Set of this most crucial of albums from one of the most productive (and well-documented) periods in the history of the World’s Greatest Rock and Roll Band would be worthy of a definitive statement of purpose. One would think that fans who wanted to relive and dive deeper into the music of that era – and new fans who want to find out what the excitement was all about – would be given a worthy retrospective. I don’t think this is what we have been presented...in fact, I look at the new Some Girls Deluxe box set as an ungenerous missed opportunity.

Comparing the spectacular, comprehensive Deluxe sets for defining albums by the Beach Boys (SMiLE) and U2 (Achtung Baby) that were recently released with the new Some Girls Deluxe set leaves me feeling let down. The Stones’ offering is clearly inferior.

U2’s Box Set is a 10-disc box, which includes six CDs (with remixes and alternate versions), four DVDs, a hardback book and 16 art prints. It includes the original Achtung Baby album, the follow-up album, Zooropa, b-sides and re-workings of previously unheard material recorded during the Achtung Baby sessions. It also has 4 (!) documentary and concert DVDs including "From The Sky Down", Zoo TV, all the videos from Achtung Baby plus bonus material. My remastered version of the album has 26 songs (including a cover of the Stones’ Paint It Black) – and it costs less than the Stones’ Some Girls Deluxe set!!

The Beach Boys SMiLE Box Set has 5 CD’s and 2 LP’s and 2 singles, including a 60 page hardcover book, a beautiful poster and drawings and different stereo mixes...about 140 songs in total. It is spectacularly completist – and it also costs less than the Stones’ Some Girls Deluxe set!!

The Stones Some Girls Box Set is niggardly in comparison. The original album, plus a CD with 12 new tracks...some remixed and overdubbed with (at times unnecessary) new vocals. There is a DVD with some videos (2 from an old ABC-TV special) and concert performances of 3 songs, one single (BoB/Whip), a book, some postcards a print by Helmut Newton and a poster. What the f*ck? I know this will not be 'politically correct' and I will be slammed for writing this, but I am at a loss as to why the fanbase is not outraged at the stingy presentation from the Glimmer Twins.

I would say to Messr. Jagger and Richards...do you not realize that a lot of your long-time fans have bought this album now 4 freaking times? First as an LP. Then a cassette or CD. Then the 1994 Virgin remasters by Bob Ludwig (not to mention the over-compressed and brittle 2009 version which some got duped into buying) and now...this? Oh, we are indeed thankful for the 12 “new” extra tracks. But was it too much to ask to give your fans market value and be a bit more comprehensive and creative in your offering? Why release only the same original material in the same form and sequence (plus the aforementioned 12 extra tracks) when you have so many incredible alternate takes in the can? Like what you ask, Mr. Jagger? Well, for a start what about the magnificent alternate/longer versions of some of the best songs on the original album?

What about the 12” long-single DJ version of Miss You – one of the best dance-floor tracks in history – and the defining song of Summer ’78. There exists an 8:37 version and a nearly 12 minute version in the vaults...where is it on this set? What about the extended version of When the Whip Comes Down? There is a pulverizing 6:14 extended version and the apocalyptic (original?) 10 minute version which is arguably the greatest pure garage-rock track of the 1970’s. You know...the one with the 2 extra verses:

Mr. Rockafeller he won’t give me no load
...and Mr. Brown He don’t want me back home,
Well I love my momma and she loves her son
But it’s so goddamn hard to go back where I started from...

(repeating and altering an earlier stanza)
Mamma and Papa told me I was just crazy to stay
I was just lost in New York I was just lost in L.A.
But I got some money now so I took the plane
Wherever I go they all treat me the same...

How could you not include those amazing versions in the box set? Furthermore, where is the vicious 6:35 long version of the title track? That’s a really nasty cooker. And the fantastic longer version of Just My Imagination? Or the super-duper raw (original) alternate take of Faraway Eyes? And where is the propulsive 45 seconds-longer version of Respectable with the extra choruses? And Keith’s long-version take of Before They Make Me Run? A lot of these alternate/original takes are far superior (at least more interesting) to the originals that everyone has in their collections since 33 years...and you couldn’t throw them into the mix? Why?

And where are the following essential missing tracks: Everlasting Is My Love, Fiji Gin, It's All Wrong, The Way She Held Me Tight, Some People Tell Me, Never Let Her Go, Never Make Me Cry, Disco Music...the easy-reggae version of Start Me Up...the 7:30 minute rockier version of Claudine...shit...where is Everything is Turning to Gold...Think I'm Going Mad...Munich Hilton...??!!! What the hell were you thinking?

I can (kind of) understand you not including Jah Is Not Dead (not truly finished til ’79) or alternate versions of Black Limousine, Indian Girl, Hang Fire (amazingly tough and pummeling and twice as long as the Tattoo You album version), and Start Me Up – even though they belonged to these sessions – because you might be saving them for the box sets of the two subsequent albums...but if you are not planning those box sets why didn’t you throw them in also?? Do you not realize that widely distributed bootleg albums like Girls Pills & Powders and Place Pigalle have already exposed a lot of hard-core fans to myriad versions of all these missing tracks from your Paris sessions...and in excellent fidelity?

All of the track I have mentioned have finished or nearly finished vocal and instrumental tracks. Sure it might have taken a bit more work to finish up Munich Hilton and Disco Music and some others...but all in all most of these tracks are – with a bit of clean-up – ready to go.

You retort, Mr. Jagger, that only the hard-core fans are aware of the existence of these tracks...well who the hell do you think is going to shell out between $150 and $179 for the Some Girls Deluxe box set...casual fans? As a businessman you should know that your only market for this product is exclusively the hard-core fan. Yes...the fan who already owns Girls Pills & Powder, Place Pigalle, and myriad bootlegged versions of all these songs. And these fans would have loved a definitive overview coming from your hand.

If the Beach Boys can give their fans 140 songs of alternate takes and versions – even if some are merely unfinished snippets – why couldn’t you? If U2 can give their fans a completist version of their Berlin sessions, as well as 4 DVD documentaries and concert films why can’t you? These bands have given fan of SMiLE and Achtung Baby magnitudes in value compared to what you have given Some Girls fans...and you still charge more than them.

Do you not think, Mr. Jagger, that perhaps a re-mastered live album (or two) of the 1978 tour would also have been an appropriate addition to the box set...a real honest-to-goodness double-CD live album of say...the Passaic, New Jersey Capitol Theater concert...and an entire DVD or two of a live filmed concert...like the Texas concert you will now release as a stand-alone DVD (and of course at extra charge)!? Or perhaps something like the famous Handsome Girls set where you could have offered several live concert CD’s from that tour...hell...even as direct downloads with a code one gets by buying the box set. Or 2 or 3 more Pro-Shot concert DVD’s...something...anything to give fans a more extensive and inclusive insight into this period. Why so scrimpy with extra material from this era?

What I am saying here is that the Paris sessions for Some Girls were historic, as they fundamentally provided material for the 3 subsequent albums (give or take) – a trilogy considered the last moment of true greatness for The Rolling Stones – and the concert tour following the album's release was your rawest and most vital in years, and as such this material is essential and deserves the in-depth, comprehensive treatment that is sorely missing in the new box set.

Lastly, Mr. Jagger, as glad as your fans are for the Some Girls box set with the newly released songs and the new DVD and postcards and book and such, and as much as we love the original Some Girls album and its subsequent tour, by neglecting some of the most vital and interesting material from that period you essentially left the possibility of a truly extraordinary and complete retrospective of this exciting and creative period for the Rolling Stones standing in the shadows.

---

Apologies for the rant. I'll make myself an herbal tea and go back to listening to We Had It All.

Turd on the Run

I couldn't have said it better, utter dissapointment, and a missed change.

Good post turd. I see your point but really, I'm grateful for small mercies. I think the Stones organisation needs a better archives team, people as good as the ones that run the Dead live concert stuff or at least as good as Dylan or Springsteen's people.

We know this was just scraping the barrel but hopefully now the Stones have realised that it's better they make money from their own archives then it being made by bootleggers.

I'm sure the Brussels release was the tip of the iceberg and much more will come out.

At least we got something.

And I like it...

And were getting more too.

Enjoy your herbal tea!

Ofcourse you are right; this is a missed opportunity.... anyway, in the meanwhile I still make my own 'de luxe' -sets with all songs I can find...

The Stones better hire me....

do you have it already ? what about the sound vs 2009 remaster ? was it really remastered again ?

"we know it's a bit late but we hope you don't mind if we stay"

too long - what did turd say in 20 words or less?

They always drop the ball on these reissues in my opinion. Ya Yas was a great opportunity to release a full 1969 concert in the correct running order etc but no they didn't do that. Exile reissue was a pile of crap soundwise.

What really annoys me is that the most important release of the last few years is actually the Brussels 1973 show but they only issue that in crappy mp3 or Flac. This is arguably their most important live document since Ya Yas - the band in its full glory as a live outfit. Why no CD or vinyl release. Absolutely no promotion at all to the general public. I see ads on TV for the Some Girls reissue though. Thanks guys but I have the vinyl album already and it still sounds great.

Look at what the Hendrix and Dylan archive releases are like (ok way overpriced in terms of vinyl for Dylan) but they treat their archive with respect. I would argue that for Stones fans Brussels 1973 is as important as RAH 1966 for Dylan and Woodstck 1969 for Hendrix.

I will give them some slack though for releasing the Texas 1978 DVD - well done.

Andy

the only point i disagree is about the achtung baby box you praise in confront. in that of course you can "admire" the quantity but it remains imho useless: 2 discs of dance remixes (6six6 versions of mysterious ways... O) the bsides (that a u2 fan already has.. at least i have) are about 8/9 then you have also the zooropa disc (what about the stones including emotional rescue in the somegirls deluxe box - and they tried D) and then of course a concert dvd (we have texas even if separated) and a doc and then merchandising
anyway i think i will go for a regular deluxe and maybe i will gift myself with a first press vinyl with originale 20 photos sleeve

Thanks for this release, Brussels and for future releases, Rolling Stones.

This fan appreciates that this content is now available.

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StonesTod
too long - what did turd say in 20 words or less?

he said.... MISSED OPPORTUNITY (20 letters or less) but I appreciate his detailed post.

Even though I'm very glad for the recent releases...I can't disagree with Turd.

I believe MJ is quite a history buff but I get the feeling (sometimes) that his desire NOT to dwell
on the past TRIVIALIZES the Rolling Stones' place in Rock & Roll HISTORY.

I don't know how much MJ has a hand in this stuff...probably delegates 99% of it and then gives
the final thumbs up....so maybe they do need to get a better Marketing team for their archive releases.

Or.....he's simply waiting to sell it all again in a future super duper deluxe reissue.

Even if they didn't want to go to the extreme that U2 did.......maybe something more like
the BEatles Anthology sets for each reissue. 2-3 disks of song evolutions, alternates, out-takes...& fly on the wall stuff etc....


IORR............but I like it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-11-21 17:43 by sweet neo con.

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sweet neo con

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StonesTod
too long - what did turd say in 20 words or less?

he said.... MISSED OPPORTUNITY (20 letters or less) but I appreciate his detailed post.

ok. darn it, then. but, hey it's free and it's better than nothing.

Thanks for your post Turd. Did you write this article yourself ? If so, my compliments for your way of writing. It is easy to read (even for this Dutchie) and very clear.
Maybe you should send it to a newspaper. It will probably get published.
What I regret is that you complain about the things that are not in this box, while there is some good stuff in it.
I also wonder how it can be a disappointment. The contents of the box were well known quite some time ago.
Anyway, thanks for your article.

-------------------
Keep On Rolling

AFTER purchasing, playing and selling within two weeks, the EXILE Super-Deluxe box I decided to proceed under the old axiom:

Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice, shame on me.

______________


It's obvious they looked at the EXILE sales figures pretty closely as this time around it would appear the Bonus Disc is not available separately, with or without a t-shirt, much-to-small, for the majority of their target market.

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nashville
What really annoys me is that the most important release of the last few years is actually the Brussels 1973 show but they only issue that in crappy mp3 or Flac. Why no CD or vinyl release.

I am sure, DAC + "Friends" are still working......

Comparing it to the pink floyd Dark Side box and the new Tull Aqualung box they definitley come up way short .You would think they we setiing some sort of standard for these things.Btw the Aqualung remaster really showe you how it should be done or THE Dark side blu ray with the 3 different audio options

Excellent post.

Please do not apologize for its length or for it being a "rant". Everyone has the choice to read it or not.

In two years: Two complete new concerts, 5 new tracks on Ya Ya's, 10 new tracks on Exile and 12 new songs on Some Girls, few alternative versions, no f u c k i n g dance mixes and another crap. I think that is a very good result. If they want to do they could easily release at once a ten CD version of the Voodoo sessions that I would prefer always the Deluxe versions of the Beach Girls and U2.

"The Stones’ Some Girls Super Deluxe Box Set is a Disappointment"

C'mon you know these high-end versions are always a rip-off. They target the uber-fan who want these things. Uber-fans who'll never question the buck-for-value appeal of these monstrosities... I mean "collector's items".

Btw I still have hopes that a 78 new concert will be sold thru the net.

I'm nearly through my first listen of the new Some Girls and, at first hearing, I can only say that I'm really enjoying it so far......

I agree to most of Turd On The Runs post there; well written; it was, as well.

Jagger's always been a perfection (to his ears) musician, in the way that he won't release outtakes or live recordings without studio overdubs - etc
Therefor it's no surprise that he feels that the common record-buyer won't get a load of outtakes when buying the 2CD-versions of Exile and Some Girls. However, one would believe that the fans who invests $180 in the super deluxe editions; would get something more exciting than some postcards and a booklet. They should instead, included - let's say; 5 additional discs of pure outtakes (or concerts) in such a package; instead of all the mumbo-jumbo.

Would you like some cheese with your wine?

I'm sure this all has to do with money. The Super Deluxe Box Set is probably an afterthought. The big bucks (if there are any) are in the two-CD set, period. It's obvious that really hard core collectors have a way of getting the really offbeat stuff already, so why go that route? I don't have the Jumping Jack Flash promo vids from that singles boxset because it was a rip off. I'd like the vids, but I'll wait until they one day package all their promo films.

I can't believe anyone would buy the Super Deluxe set, anyway. I only care about the music.

I don't mind the rant, and agree with the 'missed opportunity' thing here. The SuperDeluxe box comes with the incredibly rare Beast of Burden 45 Picture Sleeve, the original being worth a couple of thousand dollars.

THAT, is what people are buying. You can think that ridiculous, but let the market decide whether that was/is worth it.

If you've made the mistake of buying superdeluxe for any other reason, then I feel bad for you, but really, if you didn't know what the set contained first, WHY BUY?

I've purchased Some Girls deluxe off Amazon UK, for only 9.99 GBP...I would call that reasonable.

Given all the material that has been released in the last 2 years, and the annoucement of 5 additional classic live albums for download in the coming months, 'bitching' about this seems ridiculous to me.

"They should instead, included - let's say; 5 additional discs of pure outtakes (or concerts) in such a package; instead of all the mumbo-jumbo"

I agree but let's take Miles Davis : the BIG boxes of 5 or 6 Cds per original album only came after Miles "retired" (read : died).

What I mean is some artists just don't want to show you the making of an album. 50 minutes of new stuff is more than enough to them.
Sometimes it takes historians ( = people who often weren't born when the recording sessions took place) to do the job : listening to hundred of hours of material, selecting alt. takes, building a coherent view of what the sessions were like.

Jagger is 68. He might think he should spend the time he still has on other things... and I cannot blame him for this. I'm sure it's Was did the dirty/coal mine job and preselected the material from the master tapes.

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dcba
Jagger is 68. He might think he should spend the time he still has on other things... and I cannot blame him for this. I'm sure it's Was did the dirty/coal mine job and preselected the material from the master tapes.

When Jagger sees the need of the released product being "perfect" (unlike "outtakes" etc), then of course it takes a lot of time for him, with these projects.

But since was the man for the job of bringing Jagger the material he should be working on/overdubbing for making that "addiional disc", then I also think Was would be the right man to pull out 5 CDs of material that should be left as is.

Then again.....it's their decision to not allow that. Our loss.

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Erik_Snow

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dcba
Jagger is 68. He might think he should spend the time he still has on other things... and I cannot blame him for this. I'm sure it's Was did the dirty/coal mine job and preselected the material from the master tapes.

When Jagger sees the need of the released product being "perfect" (unlike "outtakes" etc), then of course it takes a lot of time for him, with these projects.

But since was the man for the job of bringing Jagger the material he should be working on/overdubbing for making that "addiional disc", then I also think Was would be the right man to pull out 5 CDs of material that should be left as is.

Then again.....it's their decision to not allow that. Our loss.

Don't we have actual bootlegs of this stuff though? We can seriously expect them to release 50 songs that are rerecorded, remastered, remixed, blah...blah...blah.

For those lamenting about not having all those cuts as official releases, we have them as bootlegs already.

Why can't we just be thrilled at all the new material we are actually getting?

It defies the imagination....(running 'way with me).

I appreciate your post, Turd. My general feeling on the matter is meh. I've given up trying to compare the Stones' releases to other artists. I've given up expecting releases that cater to the super hardcore fan. These box sets although you'd think would be for us---really aren't. They're glorified stocking stuffers for our friends and family to give to people like us. In fact, don't even buy it--there's a good chance someone is going to give it to you for the holidays.

Comparing it to SMiLE is useless....apples and oranges. The Stones are in no way comparable to the high quality musicianship that you would find in The Wrecking Crew. The Wrecking Crew were beyond professional in their execution---nearly every take they did was perfect. With the Stones, if we got 10 takes of "When The Whip Comes Down"--we are not going to see a polished band go through the song gracefully. False starts, bum notes and sketchy arrangements is not something Mick wants to celebrate and display proudly to the whole world in a deluxe box set.

Do you honestly think that Mick would allow for all those takes to be put in a box set when he can't even allow semi-completed outtakes to go on untouched that he has to go in and overdub each one of them? No way! There's absolutely no way you're going to see Mick "allow" us to see the band underneath the overdubs, the edits and the final product. He probably feels that's "none of our business." And in a way, he's right. It's his call. Do I agree? Not at all..but this is just how it is. Mick may be opening the vaults...but he's not going to empty out every shelf for us. Let's get real!

Tonight shall be a fun night for me. I'm getting the 2CD Some Girls set and the Ft. Worth DVD...there's really not a damn thing else I need. Must i really remind people of what a week we just had with Brussesls? I mean, come on...this ridiculous Some Girls Box set shouldn't even make us blink. Missed opportunity? Maybe. But compared to what? To other artists. But right now in the Stones world we have a lot to be thankful for.

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treaclefingers
Don't we have actual bootlegs of this stuff though? We can seriously expect them to release 50 songs that are rerecorded, remastered, remixed, blah...blah...blah.

For those lamenting about not having all those cuts as official releases, we have them as bootlegs already.

We have no idea what's in the vaults. I doubt there's many "finished tracks" there; but Richards once said "you've only seen the tip of the iceberg"....not that it seems all that believable
ANyway...quite a lot of forgettable "retakes" and such; me thinks

Yet - when it comes to live material....there's gotta be an incredible amount of vaulted stuff



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-11-21 20:01 by Erik_Snow.

11.95£ for the some girls deluxe 2cd is really a good price. I bought it. About the super deluxe version, bullshit, a dvd, seems to be a short dvd. Beast of burden is just a replica. Some pictures. And the price, 89£ on Amazon.co.uk. This is 8 times the prices of the 2cd. Easy to choose. I will burn a dvd when I'll find it on demonoid. And don't howl, a lot of guys on this board will do the same. That's all.