As Mathijs said, Keith has a real blind spot about Bill's playing, which is a shame. Sure, Keith played a few interesting bass parts that Bill would have done differently (SFTD and Casino Boogie come to mind), but the Charlie and Bill rhythm section was the engine of the Stones, and what set them apart from mere rock bands. If Keith isn't aware of this, he should be. I put it down to Keith tending to idiolize those who hang out with him and behave like he does. He doesn't seem to have much time for those that don't. Maybe Bill wasn't as fun a "hang". He simply showed up (on time), and got the job done.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-02-16 19:24 by 71Tele.

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sonomastone
Never saw this before. Thanks for sharing. It's pure genius.

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SweetThing


That satire, an imaginary Jagger response to Life piece which appeared in Slate should be an addendum in the last couple pages of LIFE....

[www.slate.com]

That's one class piece of writing, albeit fictitious. thanks for brining it to our attention.

Cheers,
SonicD

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SweetThing

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DoomandGloom
The Glimmers don't like Bill because of his connection to underage girls and they've tried to erase all that stuff from their history. Jagger's bisexuality has also been erased. This is what the living do, McCartney rewrites The Beatles tale every chance he gets. The Stones don't like Bill's "story" and are happy to put it away. The stuff about hating quitters is true, as a recordist if you took a day off more often than not you'd be replaced. Truth is you'd be worked around the clock as Jagger would show an hour or two after Keith left. Assistant engineers were known to simply collapse after a week of this, at that point everyone would be overly concerned and attentive but The Glimmers still saw this as a rite of passage and served wake ups. Once I was so tired I cried when Mick showed up early, he danced around my bed/couch and sang JJF while pointing, broke out a stash and we reviewed the tracks Keith recorded.. I didn't quit after that, but I don't remember the next week very well and even suffered temporary amnesia for about five minutes, I did not know my name or where I was! . So this is their rock till you drop philosophy, and it's been a proved success 1,000%, right now they know that each show or song could be their last but they are rock 'n'roll there's simply no room for quitters in The Rolling Stones. Bill and Taylor quit and they will be forever scorned.

Appreciate your insights as always D&G. A couple of thoughts occur to me though; mainly that it should be added how Glimmercentric those values are that they have. For instance I don't doubt at all, they found what Bill did with Mandy to be distasteful, but MJ reportedly, and Ronnie, rather obviously, cut very close to that territory themselves. And with respective to "quitting" the fact is Jagger effectively "quit" on the band when he was good and ready. Likewise Keith, albeit somewhat involuntarily, quit on them when he was put himself in harms way repeatedly.

Bill doesn't strike me as a "quitter". More like he simply retired. I think that would be more accurate. There IS a difference. Yeah, sure he went and got his own band, he didn't just curl up and die. But its one of his many retirement projects is all.

I can't argue with what you say as it makes sense but that's not how it is. Bill's quitting is personal to them I believe as was Taylor's. All of the attention, playing in front of millions et et. make a person a little weird. If you work with them you must understand this and actually have a little sympathy for their state of mind. I remember sitting around Mick and feeling like I could feel his mind racing after a joint. He was sort of misfiring, and appeared to be thinking to himself "I'm Mick Jagger, he is so cool, that's me". BTW I worked a bit on "She's The Boss" and with Keith and Ronnie with Aretha and never felt the band had broken up for good. Perhaps it was more of a break for Charlie..

To digress a little, I was pleased and (wrongly?) a little surprised to see Mick mention him and Bill having dinner and going out together (at the 8:00 mark) in the interview below:

Keith knows probably how good and important Bill was but won't admit it because of some personal issues that can be hard for us to understand. It is actually a quite normal behaviour and I believe that we are all guilty of similar behaviour. From Keith's point of view Bill is just an ordinary guy, not a legendary rock star.

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Bärs
Keith knows probably how good and important Bill was but won't admit it because of some personal issues that can be hard for us to understand. It is actually a quite normal behaviour and I believe that we are all guilty of similar behaviour. From Keith's point of view Bill is just an ordinary guy, not a legendary rock star.

Bill was ok until he claimed he wrote the JJF riff, this claim led to banishment from the sacred circle of keef.

<<I was pleased and (wrongly?) a little surprised to see Mick mention him and Bill having dinner and going out together (at the 8:00 mark) in the interview>>

They did seem rather chummy round that time. They also collaborated on the 1984 Video Rewind.

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Bärs
Keith knows probably how good and important Bill was but won't admit it because of some personal issues that can be hard for us to understand. It is actually a quite normal behaviour and I believe that we are all guilty of similar behaviour. From Keith's point of view Bill is just an ordinary guy, not a legendary rock star.

Of course, the reverse is also true. To Bill Wyman, Keith Richards is a guy he worked with for 30 years, not a legend. They seem never to have quite hit it off, so it probably bugs Keith on some level to be treated as a peer by someone who isn't a close friend.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-02-16 23:30 by blivet.

God knows what their personal travails are with each other. Keith may have always perceived Bill as an employee, a necessary evil. Bill probably quietly bugged him because Bill refused to see Keith, or Mick, as anything but the louts who were looking for a bass player when he showed up. Charlie was desired and pursued. To Bill it was a job, to Keith Bill was part of the furniture of their cocoon.

You never see Bill in footage hanging out after concerts with Keith. Bill always seems to show up in time to tune up and get on stage, nothing more. Bill may have secretly wanted their approval, or acknowledgment at least, but there appeared to be mutual antipathy. They dealt with Bill as a minor player and Bill ignored their star trips.

Underage girls? You think the others were innocent? Stray Cat Blues sounds pretty autobiographical to me.

Well, some more thoughts. It's not just about "Bill & Keith" - Jagger once commented in some interview regarding replacing Bill Wyman that it was just no big deal to replace "a bass player" in a band like the Stones. And Charlie, of all people, stated that he really couldn't/didn't hear Bill when playing together..LOL...and this I believe since he picked DJ as a replacement.

However in one of Keith's latter day interviews, there was yet another instance of his improving (that is to say, luke warm) view on Bill. He recalled that "they" (meaning I take it to be him and Jagger) may have offered advice to Bill on how to play in the early days, but not after that, then adding, that he doesn't say their advice was (had been) "good advice".

And, finally, both Bill and Keith do relate the story of Ronnie breaking the decades long deep freeze between the two at one point and the story sort of turns of Keith believing/feeling that Bill really disliked him. And then, its settled, sort of, that this wasn't the case, but rather simply Keith's lifestyle got in the way. As it happens there is a scene in the LSTNT movie, (maybe during Miss You but I don't recall exactly), where Keith walks by Bill and affectionately musses up his hair. Seemed like a nice moment. Always wondered if that occurrence coincided with Ronnie's peacemaking, since I've never seen any interaction between Keith and Bill on stage before or since.

Bill is an awesome bassist, that's why he lasted even though he's neither glamorous or personable. That little mofo is the reason why 1969-1975 was so great. No one telegraphs and enters choruses and bridges with more conviction except maybe The Ox. Even unheard his force and understanding of the arrangement tied the songs together. He did not respect Keith because he'd seen the worst of him. Mick, Ronnie and Mick as well, he and Charlie saved them on stage night after night creating beautiful mayhem. He deserves no medals however, that's what being in a band is all about. Look no further than the sloppy train-wrecks that occur after Bill quit, Wyman is a great Rolling Stone...

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DoomandGloom
Bill is an awesome bassist, that's why he lasted even though he's neither glamorous or personable. That little mofo is the reason why 1969-1975 was so great. No one telegraphs and enters choruses and bridges with more conviction except maybe The Ox. Even unheard his force and understanding of the arrangement tied the songs together. He did not respect Keith because he'd seen the worst of him. Mick, Ronnie and Mick as well, he and Charlie saved them on stage night after night creating beautiful mayhem. He deserves no medals however, that's what being in a band is all about. Look no further than the sloppy train-wrecks that occur after Bill quit, Wyman is a great Rolling Stone...

I see the light now, thats for sure! But it wasn't until after he left that I realized.... I wonder though, if the band does or not. Others have commented with conviction...Dylan and Was most notably.

It should be noted that just about anyone mentioned that wasn't a Keith arse licker got slighted in some way.

"Life" is probably the most inconsequential rock star autobiography ever written.

Bill took a huge risk when he smuggled dope to a jonesing Keith in Toronto. I'm sure Keith appreciated it (as any junkie would).

If you play in a band with someone for years or decades, you're bound to have ups and downs in your relationship with them.

Keith and Bill probably had a good share of both.

It's a part of Keith's personality to always try to have some close buddies and to bitterly reject persons who deliberately are not part of that circle. If someone has contacts outside the circle, he thinks of it as a personal betrayal unless the person for some reason is admired in an almost naive way (Stu, Charlie). Many insecure and lonely persons are like that. Of course Bill and Keith have affection for each other and had a lot of good times together, but it does not change Keith's basic feelings and interpretatiobns, which he can't do anything about it.

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stonehearted
<<I was pleased and (wrongly?) a little surprised to see Mick mention him and Bill having dinner and going out together (at the 8:00 mark) in the interview>>

They did seem rather chummy round that time. They also collaborated on the 1984 Video Rewind.

Always loved this video. So kitsch.

I've never really understood the general consensus that Bill's Mr. Square.
The guy got with loads of women and looked like a rock star, he's 10 times more cooler than most singers & guitarists today let alone bass players!

Charlie never got any stick, but poor Bill always got this outsider tag, mostly from Keith I felt.

Re: Does anybody else feel like Bill slighted Keith Richards in "Stone Alone"?

Sure @#$%&' thing!

Of course. Even more so...

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DandelionPowderman
Of course. Even more so...

Specifically and in detail.

So who's the more petty @#$%&?

No bio without a little mate rap...

STONE ALONE --- Bill Wyman



ROCKMAN

Silly Bill.

It's all about the right priorities in life (probably the main reason for Bill and Keith not being close - as Keith hate groupies - or at least taking advantage of them.)...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-02-19 00:10 by DandelionPowderman.

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Rockman


STONE ALONE --- Bill Wyman

Maybe they shouldn't be counting only girls.

That early?

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DandelionPowderman
Keith hate groupies - or at least taking advantage of them...

Suuure.

If that was the tally in '65, my God what must it have been by the end of the 70's!