There's a fine line between "influenced by" and "plagiarized", and I don't think Zep crossed it here.

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BroomWagon
Taurus and Stairway sound too much alike. Stairway could have avoided that with a different chord or even done on keyboards, it could have been altered enough.

They do sound alike for about 2 seconds each time the first notes from Stairway are repeated in the opening instrumental section of the song that point, after the first few notes, Page takes it into a different direction. So little of Stairway has to do with "Taurus" but because what does is at the beginning and creates such an understated, yet dynamic start to the song, what was apparently lifted really stands out. Also, on Taurus the acoustic riff descends and although both are played arpeggio style, the Spirit song returns to the beginning of the riff quicker than on Stairway. Page using two seconds of an acoustic melody as a jumping off point to explore further where that melody could go I'd say is more creative than an act of plagarism.

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71Tele
There's a fine line between "influenced by" and "plagiarized", and I don't think Zep crossed it here.

Agreed. I think it's much finer line between the two on "Trampled Under Foot" and "Long Train Runnin'".

I guess every 12 bar blues with similar beats per minute is a rip off of whatever the first one was that was written

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big4

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71Tele
There's a fine line between "influenced by" and "plagiarized", and I don't think Zep crossed it here.

Agreed. I think it's much finer line between the two on "Trampled Under Foot" and "Long Train Runnin'".

Interesting...I never made that connection either. As I stated in previous post, I thought the Long Train Runnin' comparison was referring to the middle part of Down By The Seaside.
Upon closer listening, I suppose I was a bit off....although the Seaside section does sound a bit similar to Trampled Underfoot, which does sound a bit similar to Long Train Runnin...

Starting at 2:12...





At any rate, I've always enjoyed all 3 songs, and now that they're linked in my mind I'll never listen to any of them the same way again....

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Stairway To Heaven is plagiarism in its purest form. Led Zeppelin, a fake band.

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Hairball

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big4

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71Tele
There's a fine line between "influenced by" and "plagiarized", and I don't think Zep crossed it here.

Agreed. I think it's much finer line between the two on "Trampled Under Foot" and "Long Train Runnin'".

Interesting...I never made that connection either. As I stated in previous post, I thought the Long Train Runnin' comparison was referring to the middle part of Down By The Seaside.
Upon closer listening, I suppose I was a bit off....although the Seaside section does sound a bit similar to Trampled Underfoot, which does sound a bit similar to Long Train Runnin...

Starting at 2:12...





At any rate, I've always enjoyed all 3 songs, and now that they're linked in my mind I'll never listen to any of them the same way again....

They can't be related....here's proof:

I love Trampled Under Foot and Down By the Seaside and absotutely hate Long Train Running, always did.

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BluzDude

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Hairball

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big4

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71Tele
There's a fine line between "influenced by" and "plagiarized", and I don't think Zep crossed it here.

Agreed. I think it's much finer line between the two on "Trampled Under Foot" and "Long Train Runnin'".

Interesting...I never made that connection either. As I stated in previous post, I thought the Long Train Runnin' comparison was referring to the middle part of Down By The Seaside.
Upon closer listening, I suppose I was a bit off....although the Seaside section does sound a bit similar to Trampled Underfoot, which does sound a bit similar to Long Train Runnin...

Starting at 2:12...





At any rate, I've always enjoyed all 3 songs, and now that they're linked in my mind I'll never listen to any of them the same way again....

They can't be related....here's proof:

I love Trampled Under Foot and Down By the Seaside and absotutely hate Long Train Running, always did.

The ascent of Long Train Running up the charts coincided with Zep's '73 tour so it was probably all over the radio while they were touring that spring-summer. I never heard the connection between Long Train, Trampled and Seaside till now, interesting. Thanks for pointing it out.

video: [www.usatoday.com] Looks like there's a brand new case against Zep. I hate to believe this but the evidence does keep coming..

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DoomandGloom
video: [www.usatoday.com] Looks like there's a brand new case against Zep. I hate to believe this but the evidence does keep coming..

Stupid....that they are allowed 43 years to do this. Basically they have to claim it was recently realized (Tolling) and the defender presented it to the public within the last 3 years (ie: the release of Celebration Day)

So, what do you think:
1. Lawyers for RC/Spirit will prevail.
2. LZ will prevail.
3. Out of court settlement

...I would place my bet on #3

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BluzDude

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DoomandGloom
video: [www.usatoday.com] Looks like there's a brand new case against Zep. I hate to believe this but the evidence does keep coming..

Stupid....that they are allowed 43 years to do this. Basically they have to claim it was recently realized (Tolling) and the defender presented it to the public within the last 3 years (ie: the release of Celebration Day)

So, what do you think:
1. Lawyers for RC/Spirit will prevail.
2. LZ will prevail.
3. Out of court settlement

...I would place my bet on #3

Report says the lawyer for Spirit "will file a lawsuit" meaning one hasn't been filed yet. In my mind they're trying to get publicity in effort to get a settlement. If I were on the jury, LZ would win the case in a heartbeat. Based on your survey, I'd say #1 doesn't have a chance, #2 would be all but assured if it were to go to trial, #3 is what RC/Spirit lawyers are hoping for/counting on. I'd like to know where he's planning on filing and what that state's laws are regarding frivolous lawsuits. This could backfire on RC/Spirit quickly if LZ decides to play hardball.

Peace,
Mr DJA

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mr_dja

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BluzDude

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DoomandGloom
video: [www.usatoday.com] Looks like there's a brand new case against Zep. I hate to believe this but the evidence does keep coming..

Stupid....that they are allowed 43 years to do this. Basically they have to claim it was recently realized (Tolling) and the defender presented it to the public within the last 3 years (ie: the release of Celebration Day)

So, what do you think:
1. Lawyers for RC/Spirit will prevail.
2. LZ will prevail.
3. Out of court settlement

...I would place my bet on #3

Report says the lawyer for Spirit "will file a lawsuit" meaning one hasn't been filed yet. In my mind they're trying to get publicity in effort to get a settlement. If I were on the jury, LZ would win the case in a heartbeat. Based on your survey, I'd say #1 doesn't have a chance, #2 would be all but assured if it were to go to trial, #3 is what RC/Spirit lawyers are hoping for/counting on. I'd like to know where he's planning on filing and what that state's laws are regarding frivolous lawsuits. This could backfire on RC/Spirit quickly if LZ decides to play hardball.

Peace,
Mr DJA

...actually, I hope you're right.

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kleermaker
Stairway To Heaven is plagiarism in its purest form. Led Zeppelin, a fake band.

Tell us more about your feelings. {YAWN}





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-22 20:17 by MILKYWAY.

Seems to me Randy California had no interest in a suit while he was alive. He must have felt somewhat ok with it or he in fact lifted the riff from somewhere else, perhaps a folk song. A suit by his family seems like an act of greed but then again we see cases against LZ all legitimate, they do deserve a spanking in their purses. Really it's a shame here, much more despicable than "My Sweet Lord" or Clapton's "Give Me Strength". The "Dazed" and "Stairway" lifts established LZ as rock greats. The Stones were much slicker in their crimes as it's long rumored they'd send associates to see and record unsigned hot bands to grab their hooks.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-20 20:55 by DoomandGloom.

The story has now infiltrated CNN and other news channels...

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Doom andGloom
Seems to me Randy California had no interest in a suit while he was alive.

That's what several lawyers/legal analysts mentioned during the report I saw, and given that fact the threat of a lawsuit indeed seems frivolous.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Here's a very telling clip on how the Doors put together the song Break On Through, which was essentially a musical cut and paste of what each band member was listening to at the time. After Ray Manzarek demonstrates the Ray Charles keyboard riff he lifted for the song, he shamelessly boasts, "We'd steal from anybody."

They also settled out of court in 2010 with jake Holmes for Dazed and Confused

Robby Krieger has openly said the Doors were playing Ghost Riders in the Sky and it morphed into Riders on the Storm.

"An interesting collection of songs by the "original" artists which demonstrates the source of inspiration for some of Led Zeppelin's early material. In some cases, songs were simply covered as is by Zeppelin, with a bit of dynamics thrown in. There's quality songs here in their original, & in some cases, raw underproduced form. This compilation is mostly a blues collection with some folk mixed in that was the genesis of what was to follow for the next 10 years."

1. The Train Kept A Rollin' / Johnny Burnett & the Rock'n Roll Trio
2. Dazed & Confused / Jake Holmes
3. As Long As I Have You / Garner Mimms
4. Babe, I'm Gonna Leave You / Joan Baez
5. You Shook Me / Muddy Waters
6. Stones in My Passway / Robert Johnson
7. Black Water Side / Bert Jansch
8. I Can't Quit You / Otis Rush
9. How Many More Years / Howlin' Wolf
10. The Hunter / Albert King
11. You Need Love / Muddy Waters
12. Killing Floor / Howlin' Wolf
13. Travelling Riverside Blues / Robert Johnson
14. Bring it on Home / Sonny Boy Williamson II
15. Boogie Chillun / John Lee Hooker
16. That's Alright / Elvis Presley
17. Somethi' Else / Eddie Cochran
18. For What It's Worth / Buffalo Springfield
19. Gallows Pole (The Gallis Pole) / Leadbelly
20. Keep a Knockin' / Little Richard
21. When the Levee Breaks / Memphis Minnie
22. Shake `em on Down / Bukka White
23. In My Time of Dying (Jesus Make Up My Dying Bed / Blind Willie Johnson
24. Chicken Strut / The Meters
25. Nobody's Fault But Mine / Blind Willie Johnson

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-05-15/led-zeppelins-stairway-to-heaven-vs-dot-spirits-taurus-a-reckoning

(Randy)California doesn’t seem to have griped about Stairway’s genesis, at least publicly, for decades. Finally, citing the gigs they played together, California told journalist Jeff McLaughlin in the winter 1997 issue of Listener magazine that Led Zeppelin had filched his song. “I’d say it was a ripoff,” California said. “And the guys made millions of bucks on it and never said ‘Thank you,’ never said, ‘Can we pay you some money for it?’ It’s kind of a sore point with me. Maybe someday their conscience will make them do something about it.” On Jan. 2, 1997, California drowned while rescuing his 12-year-old son from a rip current in Hawaii.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-21 09:50 by Redhotcarpet.

Spirit were one of my favorite bands in the middle-seventies...Zeppelin were not....

2 1 2 0

Actually, Led Zep is being sued for the song Taurus by the band Spirit.

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shawnriffhard1
Actually, Led Zep is being sued for the song Taurus by the band Spirit.

Actually, LZ is being sued for the song Stairway To Heaven because of the song Taurus, by the band Spirit

And it's all here.

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DandelionPowderman

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shawnriffhard1
Actually, Led Zep is being sued for the song Taurus by the band Spirit.

Actually, LZ is being sued for the song Stairway To Heaven because of the song Taurus, by the band Spirit

Actually, Led Zeppelin is being sued for the song Stairway To Heaven because of the instrumental Taurus by family members of those who were in the band Spirit.

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stonehearted


Led Zeppelin is being sued

... again?

Oh, and by the way, if the Spirit lawsuit wins for Taurus, they should be charitable and split the winnings with The Chocolate Watch Band, also without whom, apparently, the stairway would not have "led" anywhere in particular, at least not to classic rock heaven.

Zeppelin opened for Spirit on one of their early U.S. tours and Page is said to have taken a keen interest in the Taurus instrumental, and The Chocolate Watch Band had toured with the Jimmy Page era Yardbirds.





"But it is that holiest of Holy Grails, 'Stairway To Heaven,' that will shock the faithful. On one of Led Zeppelin's early tours, they had opened for the California art-rock group, Spirit. In the liner notes to the reissue of Spirit's 1968 eponymous debut, the band's guitarist Randy California mentions the fact that Jimmy Page took special interest in an original entitled 'Taurus.' There is no doubt that Page appropriated the opening guitar lines note for note on 'Stairway To Heaven.' Further, the chord progression in 'Stairway To Heaven' is incredibly similar to a song by the Chocolate Watch Band, 'And She's Lonely.' The Yardbirds played with the Chocolate Watch Band during Page's tenure. It would be quite ironic if he did indeed lift the chords from the Chocolate Watch Band. The Chocolate Watch Band, to those in the know, were the ultimate Yardbirds clone. Wouldn't it be fitting that a former Yardbirds guitarist ripped off something from a band that based an entire career around sounding like that famed quintet?"

--Music critic Will Shade, from Perfect Sound Forever, 2001

Yeah, I hear it kicks in round 3:10 there. However, this chord progression is almost like a 12 bar blues, in its commonness - there are so many variations of it, even from way further back. Probably, both Spirit and the Chocolate Watch Band would have to share credits with lots of other artists

Here's my favourite of the Am/G/F#/F-songs - recorded round the same time as STH

I got a Deja Vu now, Stonehearted! Haven't we discussed this before? Back then I think I posted this one

Wow! How about that one? Really, though, I think Page may have cleverly combined the Spirit and Nick Drake intros to craft something unique. While similar, I don't think it's (Stairway) exactly the same as Taurus. More than mere plagiarism, I think this case merely gets into deconstructing how musicians create. It's unfair to criticize Page/Zeppelin, when there are so many others--it's not like Harrison and He's so Fine, where the same melody is clearly running through the entire My Sweet Lord song so that you could substitute words interchangeably without disrupting the meter or the melody.