Can anyone think of any Rolling Stones songs that were intended to be recorded in the key of, say, G, and then some problem with the tape machine causes the final speed of the recording to either speed up or slow down?

Of course, for many years some of the songs didn't really sound right aside from the LP versions because of such speed discrepancies.

Aside from the Stones, there are a couple of suspects:
"Light My Fire" - The Doors (1967) (original version is 6:50, but tape speed issues caused the final running time of the song to be 7:05) - original key of song was in G, but for many years the bastardized version slowed it down between F#-G. The story behind this speed problem is legendary.

"Roxanne" - The Police (1978/1979) - Song sounds like in key of G, but speed problems changed it to a microtonal G-G#.

"Layla" - Eric Clapton/Derek & the Dominos (1970/1972) - live version is in key of A (going by the first guitar note), but for some reason the original LP version's pitch is closer to A#. The piano outro should be in key of C but the speed problem increased it to C#.

~Ben

I wanna be your man

__________________________

There are loads of stones tracks which don't quite sit on concert pitch.

Quote
His Majesty
There are loads of stones tracks which don't quite sit on concert pitch.

That could just be dodgy tuning rather than tape faults though. It's even more common on U.S. 50s rock & roll, blues, country (etc) records (try playing along to many Chuck Berry or Bo Diddley records).

There's a point in the Middle of the Studio Version of IORR where it sounds like the speed changes, like it slows down a little then speeds up again.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-20 02:36 by ryanpow.

Quote
Sleepy City

Quote
His Majesty
There are loads of stones tracks which don't quite sit on concert pitch.

That could just be dodgy tuning rather than tape faults though. It's even more common on U.S. 50s rock & roll, blues, country (etc) records (try playing along to many Chuck Berry or Bo Diddley records).

Not if piano, organs etc are involved. It's not really tape faults as such though(unless specific machines were not working as they should), it's just a to be expected outcome from using tape, different machines etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-20 03:11 by His Majesty.

Quote
ryanpow
There's a point in the Middle of the Studio Version of IORR where it sounds like the speed changes, like it slows down a little then speeds up again.

The live version is in a different, lower key altogether to save Mick Jagger's vocals from going out too soon from high notes.

~Ben

"I Am Waiting" is slightly off pitch.
I remember some of Bert Jansch's songs from his brilliant first album. "Courting Blues".
Also, The Allman's "Little Martha", although the pitch was corrected in the "Dreams" compilation, I think that's the only official release in the correct pitch and with Berry Oakley's bass.

---



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-20 06:36 by ryanpow.

I believe that there's a slight glitch in the tape speed at the end of "19th Nervous Breakdown".

Anyone want to discuss "Time Is On My Side"? Looking back, on the Big Hits CD this song's pitch varies, but on the Hot Rocks 1964-71 CD, it sounds more in pitch.

~Ben

Fingerprint File

All of Shine A Light (the 2008 film and live album). It's a half pitch higher on all songs I think.

JumpingKentFlash

Quote
BrianJones1969
Can anyone think of any Rolling Stones songs that were intended to be recorded in the key of, say, G, and then some problem with the tape machine causes the final speed of the recording to either speed up or slow down?

Of course, for many years some of the songs didn't really sound right aside from the LP versions because of such speed discrepancies.

Aside from the Stones, there are a couple of suspects:
"Light My Fire" - The Doors (1967) (original version is 6:50, but tape speed issues caused the final running time of the song to be 7:05) - original key of song was in G, but for many years the bastardized version slowed it down between F#-G. The story behind this speed problem is legendary.

"Roxanne" - The Police (1978/1979) - Song sounds like in key of G, but speed problems changed it to a microtonal G-G#.

"Layla" - Eric Clapton/Derek & the Dominos (1970/1972) - live version is in key of A (going by the first guitar note), but for some reason the original LP version's pitch is closer to A#. The piano outro should be in key of C but the speed problem increased it to C#.

~Ben

1st of all Ben, EXCELLENT work on pointing out "Light My Fire" (the greatest song ever written). The Doors debut album was the first cd I ever owned (12 years old), and I can tell you the versions rereleased in the 1980s and 1990s of that song were slowed down, changing the key from A to A flat in the process. I've always been partial to the lower tuning, which is why I tune down a 1/2 step when I play it on guitar.

As for the Stones, I still think the studio version of "Street Fighting Man" was sped up prior to release. Play the version on BB and GYYYO/Stripped back to back and see what I mean. Even the tabs I have for the studio version denote a tuning 1/2 up than what the stones usually play the song in.

By the by has anyone else noticed this?:

Between 1976-1982, "Happy" and "Tumbling Dice" are in a key sharper than their "usual" tunings. Anyone know why the Stones did this? Yeah back in the day they weren't opposed to rearranging some of their songs for live settings as they are now, (Stray Cat Blues and Sympathy being the most obvious examples), but those two never sounded "right" during those years because of that.

Quote
JumpingKentFlash
All of Shine A Light (the 2008 film and live album). It's a half pitch higher on all songs I think.

Presumably only on the PAL version.

The whole Beggars Banquet album.

In August 2002, ABKCO Records reissued Beggars Banquet as a newly remastered LP and SACD/CD hybrid disk. This release corrected an important flaw in the original album by restoring each song to its proper, slightly faster speed. Due to an error in the mastering, Beggars Banquet was heard for over thirty years at a slower speed than it was recorded. This had the effect of altering not only the tempo of each song, but the song's key as well. These differences were subtle but important, and the remastered version is about 30 seconds shorter than the original release.
(wikipedia)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-20 17:07 by kowalski.

The Let´s Spend The Night Together-movie is sped up for sure.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
The Let´s Spend The Night Together-movie is sped up for sure.

Again, is this just a PAL issue?

When transferred from film (not videotape) videos & DVDs are often speeded up slightly when converted to PAL, & (sometimes) run a little slow when converted to NTSC.

Love In Vain from the old Ladies And Gentlemen was on G sharp, it was corrected for the DVD release.

Quote
stones78
Love In Vain from the old Ladies And Gentlemen was on G sharp, it was corrected for the DVD release.

Yes, the whole movie was running fast on the bootlegs.

"Caroline No" from "Pet Sounds"/Beach Boys was sped up.

Quote
stones78
Love In Vain from the old Ladies And Gentlemen was on G sharp, it was corrected for the DVD release.

Yeah if I'm not mistaken, so was "All Down the Line"

Also, it sounds like Garden State '78 is sped up too

I don't think its the wrong speed, but around the Between the Buttons Era, their stuff sound sped up. Micks Vocals sound higher than what is natural for him on LSTNT and Miss Amanda Jones.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-21 04:05 by ryanpow.

Yeah, but She Smiled Sweetly sounds too slow...

Speaking of the Beach Boys, has anyone noticed on "Good Vibrations" that, at the bridge, when the lyrics end and you hear a tambourine and organ, the pace slows considerably. I've wondered if that was intentional.

Revolution is a half key off.

its the entire doors first album according to ray was mastered too slow

When I'm 64 was sped up.

Quote
ryanpow
I don't think its the wrong speed, but around the Between the Buttons Era, their stuff sound sped up. Micks Vocals sound higher than what is natural for him on LSTNT and Miss Amanda Jones.

I'm not so sure that it actually was though. If you check out the live versions of LSTNT from '67 he sounds the same...

The backing vocals for 'She's A Rainbow' were sped up.

seemed like every copy i had of hot rocks on cassette (before mid 80's remasterings) ran very slow. it took me a long time to get used to the hearing the correct speeds on vinyl and later on cd.