tonterapi, check out The Rolling Stones Recording Sessions site.

As folks type here, Brian is not listed as the slide player on "Jigsaw Puzzle", I was going by ear.

To me, it's a mind blower that it's Keith on slide there, and Brian on lead on IWBYM. To have them sound so much like the other – you guys think a little deal was struck at the crossroads?

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Mathijs

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neptune
Yes, I understand that was a slide solo, but, hell, its harder to do that in slide! It seems that Brian and Keith had an agreement from the beginning that Brian would do all the slide stuff and Keith all the standard guitar solos.

The genius of this solo is the aggression to it.

Mathijs

Right on. A great statement.

... which matches the "punk" Brian persona. Waaay ahead of its time. Reminds me of Keith's solo on "Sympathy" ... it's got dirty fingers all over it.

I've read that Brian was a great acoustic-fingerpicking blues player, I think Bob Dylan or Hendrix have said that he played Robert Johnson really good, it's a shame that there are no recordings of this.

OK – just heard it again, and hear what you guys mean. It definitely sounds like Keith winding up the fretboard at the line, "he's a walking clothesline", but then he sounds JUST LIKE JONES. Weird ... I still wanna think it's Jones, but it all sounds like the same guitar. Yet, the lyrics do read: "the guitar players look damaged / they've been outcasts all their lives", which suggests both are playing guitar. But they're just words. To think Keith was deliberately playing like Jones to fool the fans is a dirty trick, but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

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Palace Revolution 2000
Hee hee - please, not the dreaded "Jigsaw Puzzle" debate again!

Which thread?

DB, we've had lengthy! threads about this very topic. Not sure what the search keyword would be; night be far back. But in depth about Keith or Brian on slide, and Keith or Bill on Bass.

It's always Brian on slide and Bill on bass except for when it happens to be Keith on Bass and since you never can now which we must live with that...

I'll bet Paul played a lot more on Beatles records than what we can read in books...even drums and guitar...



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Come On
It's always Brian on slide and Bill on bass except for when it happens to be Keith on Bass and since you never can now which we must live with that...

I'll bet Paul played a lot more on Beatles records than what we can read in books...even drums and guitar...

Except for when it's Keith on slide

Some of the nicest slide work was done by Keith, imo. Love In Vain comes to mind.

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DandelionPowderman
Some of the nicest slide work was done by Keith, imo. Love In Vain comes to mind.

Presumably that's him on Midnight Rambler too? I know it's just a simple little riff, but I always miss that on live versions.

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Sleepy City

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DandelionPowderman
Some of the nicest slide work was done by Keith, imo. Love In Vain comes to mind.

Presumably that's him on Midnight Rambler too? I know it's just a simple little riff, but I always miss that on live versions.

Yep, Keith on slide all over the LIB-album, except for Country Honk.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-17 11:45 by DandelionPowderman.

Yeah, but 1969 is beyond Brian-time....

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Sleepy City

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DandelionPowderman
Some of the nicest slide work was done by Keith, imo. Love In Vain comes to mind.

Presumably that's him on Midnight Rambler too? I know it's just a simple little riff, but I always miss that on live versions.

It's Keith on 12-string electric slide, as on Monkey Man.

Mathijs

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Come On
Yeah, but 1969 is beyond Brian-time....

1968 is not (read Jig Saw Puzzle)...

And Brian is playing on some of the songs Keith plays slide on on LIB (not guitar, though).

The mellotron on Stray Cat Blues comes in after the first chorus, it's just mixed down low, but mixed higher in time for the breakdown/end section.

During the verse and chorus's Brian plays off kilter, chordal stabs using the same mixed brass sound he used on We Love You.

Regarding who plays slide on Jigsaw Puzzle, the Satanic Sessions bootleg CD featuring them recording it leaves no doubt as to who the slide player is. I never really thought it was Brian and the CD confirmed that, but it also revealed that Bill played the bass, which did suprise me as I thought for years that it was Keith who played bass on the track.

Keith has also told us that he played acoustic and slide on Jigsaw Puzzle. This, in tandem with what the bootleg CD tells us makes it a sure thing.

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His Majesty
Regarding who plays slide on Jigsaw Puzzle, the Satanic Sessions bootleg CD featuring them recording it leaves no doubt as to who the slide player is. I never really thought it was Brian and the CD confirmed that, but it also revealed that Bill played the bass, which did suprise me as I thought for years that it was Keith who played bass on the track.

What had me on the wrong track considering the bass is that it sounds very much like a Fender Jazz or Precision bass, something I do not relate to Wyman. But the outtakes prove it is Wyman, and we have a picture of him rehearsing with Jones and Richards playing a Fender Jazz (or Precision, I forgot).

Mathijs

I am wondering if Brian pushing Keith and vice versa propelled the instrumental side of the group early.

Brian going off and being maybe more interested in psychedelia and non-guitar sounds led to the lull in how they rocked in 67-68.

The Mick Taylor joins and you have a second guitarist to push Keith again and they enter the golden age.

Even on some of the stuff where it is Keith playing...not Brian or Taylor...was Keith's soloing and rhythm playing stronger when he had another guitarist pushing him, musically?

Not a slag on Brian or Taylor. It just seems to me that Keith was at his best early on with a healthy Brian, and then again with a healthy Taylor, than he has been at other times.

In sports, teams have a most valuable player award. It often goes to the 'star' of the team, but to me, the most valuable player is the one that gets everyone else around him to perform much better, and that is more important than any individual performance. Was Brian that for the early Stones?

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buffalo7478
I am wondering if Brian pushing Keith and vice versa propelled the instrumental side of the group early.

Brian going off and being maybe more interested in psychedelia and non-guitar sounds led to the lull in how they rocked in 67-68.

The Mick Taylor joins and you have a second guitarist to push Keith again and they enter the golden age.

Even on some of the stuff where it is Keith playing...not Brian or Taylor...was Keith's soloing and rhythm playing stronger when he had another guitarist pushing him, musically?

Not a slag on Brian or Taylor. It just seems to me that Keith was at his best early on with a healthy Brian, and then again with a healthy Taylor, than he has been at other times.

In sports, teams have a most valuable player award. It often goes to the 'star' of the team, but to me, the most valuable player is the one that gets everyone else around him to perform much better, and that is more important than any individual performance. Was Brian that for the early Stones?

They didn't rock in 1968???

So I have a Q: on "Get off of my Cloud" who is playing the whiny-type lead-line in verses?

Brian plays the main riff ... I guess it does sound whiny!

Brian plays it on the studio recording and live check out this version

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Blue
Brian plays the main riff ... I guess it does sound whiny!

It's a Rick 12. I never thought of it as whiny. It's a good part. Simple and effective.

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tomk

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Blue
Brian plays the main riff ... I guess it does sound whiny!

It's a Rick 12. I never thought of it as whiny. It's a good part. Simple and effective.

Absolutely love it!!

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tomk

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Blue
Brian plays the main riff ... I guess it does sound whiny!

It's a Rick 12. I never thought of it as whiny. It's a good part. Simple and effective.

haha..well it is just adjective; not meant in a neg. sense. Actually I was more wondering about the guitars on the song because it brings one more song out where Brian plays kind of a lead line.
It would have surprised me if it was Keith on the lead line, because it is the OTHER guitar that is played such with force. And I have never heard Brian play like that. So..I was a-confused.

All you Brian on slide haters can take a back seat. He was unique and nobody, n-o-b-o-d-y has his FEEL. To say his slide solos weren't out of this world is ludicrous. Who cares if they're technically perfect? He MADE 'Little Red Rooster'. No one, Clapton, no one, played it better. The man was getting signals from another realm. And his raking slide on 'I'm Movin' On' is demonic in its intensity. He was not a rock and roller. He was a rhythm and blues artist.

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Blue
Brian plays the main riff ... I guess it does sound whiny!

Im a Brian-fan but not blind to that 22-27 year old guy's faults. The "whiny" Brian might be true but I think it's more his reaction to Mick, Keith and Andrew. Bill was more stable.

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Sleepy City

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buffalo7478
I am wondering if Brian pushing Keith and vice versa propelled the instrumental side of the group early.

Brian going off and being maybe more interested in psychedelia and non-guitar sounds led to the lull in how they rocked in 67-68.

The Mick Taylor joins and you have a second guitarist to push Keith again and they enter the golden age.

Even on some of the stuff where it is Keith playing...not Brian or Taylor...was Keith's soloing and rhythm playing stronger when he had another guitarist pushing him, musically?

Not a slag on Brian or Taylor. It just seems to me that Keith was at his best early on with a healthy Brian, and then again with a healthy Taylor, than he has been at other times.

In sports, teams have a most valuable player award. It often goes to the 'star' of the team, but to me, the most valuable player is the one that gets everyone else around him to perform much better, and that is more important than any individual performance. Was Brian that for the early Stones?

They didn't rock in 1968???

I should have said 67/68...though great, Ruby Tuesday and LSTNT were not really guitar, driven rock. And Satanic Majesties came out in late 67, early 68.

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buffalo7478

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Sleepy City

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buffalo7478
I am wondering if Brian pushing Keith and vice versa propelled the instrumental side of the group early.

Brian going off and being maybe more interested in psychedelia and non-guitar sounds led to the lull in how they rocked in 67-68.

The Mick Taylor joins and you have a second guitarist to push Keith again and they enter the golden age.

Even on some of the stuff where it is Keith playing...not Brian or Taylor...was Keith's soloing and rhythm playing stronger when he had another guitarist pushing him, musically?

Not a slag on Brian or Taylor. It just seems to me that Keith was at his best early on with a healthy Brian, and then again with a healthy Taylor, than he has been at other times.

In sports, teams have a most valuable player award. It often goes to the 'star' of the team, but to me, the most valuable player is the one that gets everyone else around him to perform much better, and that is more important than any individual performance. Was Brian that for the early Stones?

They didn't rock in 1968???

I should have said 67/68...though great, Ruby Tuesday and LSTNT were not really guitar, driven rock. And Satanic Majesties came out in late 67, early 68.

The 1967-tour is one of the rawest, most rocking tours they ever did.

OK I know this thread is now older than the hills but I couldn't t resist. I just want to mention two songs. Bright Lights Big City and Honey What's Wrong. This is the best guitar Brian and Keith ever played together. Listen closely to both. Pure Jimmy Reed style. Keith playing the high notes, Brian the low. Fabulous guitar hy both. They match each other note for note. And they both play the notes pretty fast. Brian was more than capable of standard lead. Remember Bill called him the best the best guitar player in England in 1963. And don't forget that Muck, Keith and Andrew were against him as early as 1964.

Brian on guitar?
1964
Rooster (it's all about the sound and that's what Brian was about. His Fender Tele)
Over Now (12 string custom Vox Teardrop. He mimes to it on RSG)
Mona (even Keith was impressed. Mandy Aftel's book)
King Bee (He makes his slide sound like a bee stinging. Again the sound)
Tell Me (It is perfect for the song. Why does every lead have to hard and complicated? It's s what works)
1965
Last Time (his guitar makes the whole song. Should have received a song writing credit)
Satisfied; Shame; (excellant slide. Listen to Shame live on RSG)
Cloud (his 12 string compliments Keith's power chords)

That's just to name a few. Merry Christmas everyone.

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His Majesty
Regarding who plays slide on Jigsaw Puzzle, the Satanic Sessions bootleg CD featuring them recording it leaves no doubt as to who the slide player is. I never really thought it was Brian and the CD confirmed that, but it also revealed that Bill played the bass, which did suprise me as I thought for years that it was Keith who played bass on the track.

Do I understand you correct? You are saying that "Jigsaw Puzzle" was recorded in 1967 for "Their Satanic Majesties Request", but was finally used for "Beggars Banquet"?