Sounds as if DiscoVolante has done his homework, so if the 60s don't work for him, then no amount of telling him to listen again, or insulting his taste is going to change that. The trouble seems to be that a lot of the particular things he (as a fan of the classic-rock sound of the 70s Stones) finds too "nice" and "pretty" about the 60s sound are things that Brian contributed. Brian contributed more than recorders, marimbas and sitars, of course, and the "pretty" songs were exceptions even then, but if he doesn't like them, he doesn't.

It's a pity when Stones music is only played by classic-rock radio, whose playlist will only allow a certain subset of Stones songs, because the rest don't fit their restrictive definition of what a Rock Song must sound like. They are the greatest of rock bands, but they are a great pop, soul, reggae, country and you-name-it-they-play-it band too.

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DiscoVolante

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His Majesty
What from the Taylor era is better than Satisfaction, Ruby Tuesday, Paint It Black, The Last Time, 2000 Light Years From Home, Jumpin' Jack Flash, Street Fighting Man etc etc?

There isn't anything better, it's just different, more rock orientated and with fancier guitar solos.

Yes there are a lot of better songs than the ones you're mentioning . Wild Horses, Sway, Tumbling Dice, Shine A Light, Let It Loose, 100 Years Ago, Winter... I can go on and on and on...

Ruby Tuesday, such an overrated song. It's a nice little melody isn't it? Who give a damn about a recorder? That belongs in the boys' choir. There's no guitars in that song, ridiculous. And don't get me started on that Satanic Majesties Request trash, the psychedelic era was just an hazy and confused craze due to all the acid the bands were taking. And in case of the Stones they were just imitating the Beatles, such a mistake. There's a reason Jimmy Miller stiffened up things a year later and told them not to abandon the blues.

Sway and 100 Years Ago better than Satisfaction, Ruby Tuesday, Paint It Black, The Last Time, 2000 Light Years From Home, Jumpin' Jack Flash, Street Fighting Man??? Man, I want some of the stuff you're smoking!

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DiscoVolante

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neptune
And here's a little advice for DiscoVolante: shut up and go get England's Newest Hitmakers, 12x5, and Now! Those three albums should get you started in understanding the roots of the Rolling Stones and why they became the greatest rock and roll band in the world.

Hey I've made myself through the Stones entire discography countless times and I did my Stones history homework a long time ago. Just because I wasn't there in the days or because I'm not british or anything doesn't mean that I don't understand the impact they had in the early days. I started this thread to understand what's so special about Brian Jones because I just don't see it. In my ears, the music they made in the midtime 60's was just a preview of what's to come. In the 70's the Stones reached a creative peak, Exile on Main St. speaks for itself, the only double-album they come to release. They were on fire. Nasty and dangerous.

Wrong.

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DandelionPowderman
Sway and 100 Years Ago better than Satisfaction, Ruby Tuesday, Paint It Black, The Last Time, 2000 Light Years From Home, Jumpin' Jack Flash, Street Fighting Man??? Man, I want some of the stuff you're smoking!

Oh yes I'm dead serious. Sway is easily one of their best tracks. You guys are talking about Brian Jones as a genius musician, I'm sure he could play a lot of fancy exotic instruments but when it comes to guitar, man Mick Taylor could play. He's by far the best musician they ever had. A true virtuoso. That apocalyptic solo he delivers in that track is out of this world.

And I could recommend smoking while listening to 100 Years Ago (that goes with the whole Goat-album). That wah-wah tickles your eardrum like a breeze

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DandelionPowderman

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DiscoVolante

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neptune
And here's a little advice for DiscoVolante: shut up and go get England's Newest Hitmakers, 12x5, and Now! Those three albums should get you started in understanding the roots of the Rolling Stones and why they became the greatest rock and roll band in the world.

Hey I've made myself through the Stones entire discography countless times and I did my Stones history homework a long time ago. Just because I wasn't there in the days or because I'm not british or anything doesn't mean that I don't understand the impact they had in the early days. I started this thread to understand what's so special about Brian Jones because I just don't see it. In my ears, the music they made in the midtime 60's was just a preview of what's to come. In the 70's the Stones reached a creative peak, Exile on Main St. speaks for itself, the only double-album they come to release. They were on fire. Nasty and dangerous.

Wrong.

True? Of course I'm not counting live-albums nor albums of the CD-era.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-29 13:28 by DiscoVolante.

Voodoo Lounge is also a double album.

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DandelionPowderman
Voodoo Lounge is also a double album.

On LP, yes - but do we still think of albums that way in the digital age? I mean, who'd guess that Beyoncé's B-Day is a double album? Definitely Maybe is a double album by your logic... and yet, it isn't considered to be one.

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Big Al

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DandelionPowderman
Voodoo Lounge is also a double album.

On LP, yes - but do we still think of albums that way in the digital age? I mean, who'd guess that Beyoncé's B-Day is a double album? Definitely Maybe is a double album by your logic... and yet, it isn't considered to be one.

It's not my logic, it's Keith's. He referred to VL in 1994 as the group's second double album.

And of course it is. It was released on vinyl, which was still an important medium back in 94.

..and what about Prince Triple-CD..a 5 LP-album?



2 1 2 0

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DandelionPowderman
It's not my logic, it's Keith's. He referred to VL in 1994 as the group's second double album.

Well, Keith is not the ultimate authority. But definitions aside, surely we can all agree that Exile is their longest album ever.

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DandelionPowderman

And of course it is. It was released on vinyl, which was still an important medium back in 94.

I've never thought of Voodoo Lounge as being a double-album, though technically I guess it could be considered one. I just feel it is a bit of a redundant concept. Like I said. Definitely Maybe is spread across 2 LP's, but I have never seen it referred to as a double-album, anywhere.

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Big Al

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DandelionPowderman

And of course it is. It was released on vinyl, which was still an important medium back in 94.

I've never thought of Voodoo Lounge as being a double-album, though technically I guess it could be considered one. I just feel it is a bit of a redundant concept. Like I said. Definitely Maybe is spread across 2 LP's, but I have never seen it referred to as a double-album, anywhere.

The difference here was that I actually had seen it referred to as a double album - by the artist himself

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FreeBird
But definitions aside, surely we can all agree that Exile is their longest album ever.

Ehm, no? A Bigger Bang is even longer isn't it?
O, no, my mistake. Exile is three minutes longer than A Bigger Bang...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-29 17:47 by marcovandereijk.

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tonterapi
TSMR is my second favorite album by the Stones - only Beggar's Banquet is better IMHO.

All things considered, those 2 are my favs as well.

I grew up with the Stones, bought their first single on London records, love CONGRATULATIONS as much as the flip side TIME IS ON MY SIDE. I am very aware of BRian's musical contributions and no one can deny that he added that special element back in the day, but Neptune, I disagree that the best of the Stones ended with the loss of Brian. The Stones experienced a rebirth with EXILE and Sticky Fingers. Brians' leaving in no way signaled the end of their creativity, IMO.
And NO, I don't condone any form of women-beating. Brian just seemed exceptionally nasty and controlling, and I have done a considerable amount of reading and homework on the topic of Brian and his influence on the Stones . Golden Stone by Laura Jackson is an interesting read; Jackson interviewed quite a few of Brians' family members and ex-girlfriends who give a real insight into what he was like for those who knew him personally. One telling quote: The tirades between Brian and Anita " spilled over into physical viloence, which allegedly resulted in Brian assaulting her so badly that he ended up with a broken hand". Brian was going to be temporarily replaced by another guitarist, which made Brian so paranoid that he flipped out and went to a specialist. Brian returned to the band with his hand wrapped on stage during their fifth American/Canadian tour.
To most, this is old news but I just wanted to illustrate my point and show why I feel the way I do about Brian. He just never seemed like a guy I'd want to hang out with!

great musician I think we can all agree.

great man. I'm not too sure.

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mickschix
He just never seemed like a guy I'd want to hang out with!

unlike mick and keith?

The bit about him possibly being temprarily replaced is nonsense though and his hand wasn't in a bandage until September 1966 a good month or so after their final US tour with Brian as a member.

Brian was @#$%&, so were the rest of them, just in different ways.

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mickschix
I grew up with the Stones, bought their first single on London records, love CONGRATULATIONS as much as the flip side TIME IS ON MY SIDE. I am very aware of BRian's musical contributions and no one can deny that he added that special element back in the day, but Neptune, I disagree that the best of the Stones ended with the loss of Brian. The Stones experienced a rebirth with EXILE and Sticky Fingers. Brians' leaving in no way signaled the end of their creativity, IMO.
And NO, I don't condone any form of women-beating. Brian just seemed exceptionally nasty and controlling, and I have done a considerable amount of reading and homework on the topic of Brian and his influence on the Stones . Golden Stone by Laura Jackson is an interesting read; Jackson interviewed quite a few of Brians' family members and ex-girlfriends who give a real insight into what he was like for those who knew him personally. One telling quote: The tirades between Brian and Anita " spilled over into physical viloence, which allegedly resulted in Brian assaulting her so badly that he ended up with a broken hand". Brian was going to be temporarily replaced by another guitarist, which made Brian so paranoid that he flipped out and went to a specialist. Brian returned to the band with his hand wrapped on stage during their fifth American/Canadian tour.
To most, this is old news but I just wanted to illustrate my point and show why I feel the way I do about Brian. He just never seemed like a guy I'd want to hang out with!

Yes, Golden Stone is a good read. Try also Mandy Aftel's book as well, it is good too. Mind you I don't condone violence against women at all, but this is what Christopher Gibb had to say about Anita and Brian in Golden Stone. "They fought about everything - cars, prices, restaurant meals. Brian could never win an argument with Anita, he always made the mistake of trying. There would be a terrific scene with both of them screaming at each other. The difference was that Brian didn't know what he was doing. Anita did know what she was doing." Mix in drugs, etc. and you end up with a train wreck waiting to happen. The train wreck was in Morocco by the way.

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His Majesty
The bit about him possibly being temprarily replaced is nonsense though and his hand wasn't in a bandage until September 1966 a good month or so after their final US tour with Brian as a member.

Apparently, it was considered that Brian could be replaced a few times but the idea was dropped.

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stones78

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His Majesty
The bit about him possibly being temprarily replaced is nonsense though and his hand wasn't in a bandage until September 1966 a good month or so after their final US tour with Brian as a member.

Apparently, it was considered that Brian could be replaced a few times but the idea was dropped.

What do we have to back up these apparent considerations?

Anyway, as the above quote shows, it's usually just book fodder and nothing to do with actual real life events.

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Marie


Yes, Golden Stone is a good read. Try also Mandy Aftel's book as well, it is good too. Mind you I don't condone violence against women at all, but this is what Christopher Gibb had to say about Anita and Brian in Golden Stone. "They fought about everything - cars, prices, restaurant meals. Brian could never win an argument with Anita, he always made the mistake of trying. There would be a terrific scene with both of them screaming at each other. The difference was that Brian didn't know what he was doing. Anita did know what she was doing." Mix in drugs, etc. and you end up with a train wreck waiting to happen. The train wreck was in Morocco by the way.

The problem with Brian and violence is that it wasn't just with one women, crazy as Anita was, the buck stops with Brian walloping her and he did so with other women too.

His letters to Linda Keith make for very uncomfortable reading. He was mentally ill imo and needed lots and lots of help.

However, had he been different, everything else would have been different and we may never have even had The Rolling Stones in the first place.

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His Majesty

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Marie


Yes, Golden Stone is a good read. Try also Mandy Aftel's book as well, it is good too. Mind you I don't condone violence against women at all, but this is what Christopher Gibb had to say about Anita and Brian in Golden Stone. "They fought about everything - cars, prices, restaurant meals. Brian could never win an argument with Anita, he always made the mistake of trying. There would be a terrific scene with both of them screaming at each other. The difference was that Brian didn't know what he was doing. Anita did know what she was doing." Mix in drugs, etc. and you end up with a train wreck waiting to happen. The train wreck was in Morocco by the way.

The problem with Brian and violence is that it wasn't just with one women, crazy as Anita was, the buck stops with Brian walloping her and he did so with other women too.

His letters to Linda Keith make for very uncomfortable reading. He was mentally ill imo and needed lots and lots of help.

However, had he been different, everything else would have been different and we may never have even had The Rolling Stones in the first place.

Yes, I've read those letters and you are right about needing treatment. Too bad they didn't have rehab back then. On a lighter note, the ceremony at the Abbey was most impressive today Your, I mean, His Majesty!

Didn't Anita beat up Brian as well?

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mickschix
The tirades between Brian and Anita " spilled over into physical viloence, which allegedly resulted in Brian assaulting her so badly that he ended up with a broken hand".

AFAIK he tried to hit her but missed only to hit a door (or something even harder) and that's how he ended up with a broken hand (he deserved it big time).

Brian was an arse towards many of his women and I don't think that there's any Brian-fans who like or defend that side of him. But I feel that Anita has been pictured as an innocent angel way too much (with Keith as the white knight in shiny armor that saved her from the horrible demon named Brian) while quotes about her relationship with Brian shows something else. I think it shows that she had a cruel side to her as well and used it on Brian as he was an easy target. She was very different personality from Pat, Linda and Suki.

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DiscoVolante
Didn't Anita beat up Brian as well?

Yes. She gave him a black eye with the help of a telephone once.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-30 00:02 by tonterapi.

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tonterapi

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mickschix
The tirades between Brian and Anita " spilled over into physical viloence, which allegedly resulted in Brian assaulting her so badly that he ended up with a broken hand".

AFAIK he tried to hit her but missed only to hit a door (or something even harder) and that's how he ended up with a broken hand (he deserved it big time).

Brian was an arse towards many of his women and I don't think that there's any Brian-fans who like or defend that side of him. But I feel that Anita has been pictured as an innocent angel way too much (with Keith as the white knight in shiny armor that saved her from the horrible demon named Brian) while quotes about her relationship with Brian shows something else. I think it shows that she had a cruel side to her as well and used it on Brian as he was an easy target. She was very different personality from Pat, Linda and Suki.

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DiscoVolante
Didn't Anita beat up Brian as well?

Yes. She gave him a black eye with the help of a telephone once.

You're right Tonterapi... She told the story to John Phillips.

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Marie

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tonterapi

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mickschix
The tirades between Brian and Anita " spilled over into physical viloence, which allegedly resulted in Brian assaulting her so badly that he ended up with a broken hand".

AFAIK he tried to hit her but missed only to hit a door (or something even harder) and that's how he ended up with a broken hand (he deserved it big time).

Brian was an arse towards many of his women and I don't think that there's any Brian-fans who like or defend that side of him. But I feel that Anita has been pictured as an innocent angel way too much (with Keith as the white knight in shiny armor that saved her from the horrible demon named Brian) while quotes about her relationship with Brian shows something else. I think it shows that she had a cruel side to her as well and used it on Brian as he was an easy target. She was very different personality from Pat, Linda and Suki.

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DiscoVolante
Didn't Anita beat up Brian as well?

Yes. She gave him a black eye with the help of a telephone once.

You're right Tonterapi... She told the story to John Phillips.

And yet she kept a picture of him by the bed during her years with Keith.

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Redhotcarpet
And yet she kept a picture of him by the bed during her years with Keith.

She is also said to have used Brian as leverage in her fights with Keith. Even today Anita says that she and Brian had something special that she never had with Keith. I'm pretty convinced that Keith hated that with all his heart since he obviously loved her very much,

I said it earlier in this thread. It's not all black and white/easy story with Brian and Anita. It's like Brian's "friendship" with Mick and Keith. Will we ever get a clear picture?

I think that His Majesty said it best:

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Brian was @#$%&, so were the rest of them, just in different ways.

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tonterapi

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Redhotcarpet
And yet she kept a picture of him by the bed during her years with Keith.

She is also said to have used Brian as leverage in her fights with Keith. Even today Anita says that she and Brian had something special that she never had with Keith. I'm pretty convinced that Keith hated that with all his heart since he obviously loved her very much,

I said it earlier in this thread. It's not all black and white/easy story with Brian and Anita. It's like Brian's "friendship" with Mick and Keith. Will we ever get a clear picture?

I think that His Majesty said it best:

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Brian was @#$%&, so were the rest of them, just in different ways.

I think Keith knows that he didnt "save" Anita, Anita used him to get back at Brian, to leave him, jump "Blonde on blonde", and place her one stable foot at the centre of power. She knew Brian was out and Keith would provide her with whatever she needed and he wouldnt leave her. The demasculinization of Brian is something Keith still remembers and I think he enjoyed it very much - who wouldnt. I'm reading Life now and it's very telling.

And as always with Keith, what he chose to leave out in this book, the blanks, are equally important.

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DiscoVolante
Didn't Anita beat up Brian as well?

As Keith said, he did both of them a favor by taking Anita away.

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Redhotcarpet
I'm reading Life now and it's very telling.

And as always with Keith, what he chose to leave out in this book, the blanks, are equally important.

Yes, Life says a lot about Keith's feelings about Brian if you read between the lines. No matter how Keith choose to portray Brian now pictures from that time and earlier quotes from Keith shows that he liked Brian and enjoyed his twisted company. Anita really shook and shattered that. Sad...

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neptune
As Keith said, he did both of them a favor by taking Anita away.

In a way yes. Brian was better off without Anita. But Keith didn't do the Stones a favour by ending up with Anita. He became Brian Jones.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-30 20:49 by tonterapi.