In how many recording sessions have been Ry Cooder with the Stones, year/s?
Any collaboration in albums? Any sue because song credit, etc?

Carlitos
Tenerife

There's a lot of infos here: [www.ryland-cooder.com]

Jamming With Edward, Sister Morphine (there are 2-3 different versions), Love in Vain are the most popular.

Ry claims that the Stones had the tapes rolling while he was just messing around and jamming so there is probably some stuff in the vaults as well.

There's an audio interview from 1970 on this page. It's not the Rolling Stone interview but very telling about credits and how his stuff was used in Jagger/Richards songs, how they sponge things and used his stuff in their songs. Also praises Charlie and Bill and says the credit thing is passé.

Keiths style from 1968/1969 is very very influenced by Ry and there are licks lifted from Ry, open and standard. Monkey man, Midnight Rambler (obviously from two songs on Jamming with Edwards, possibly other sessions as well), the riffing on Live with me etc. Which partly started to change in 1971 and actually through Mick's open G riffing style. And Keiths updated Berry/Cooder style.

Very interesting interview 1970 about the Stones

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Redhotcarpet
There's an audio interview from 1970 on this page. It's not the Rolling Stone interview but very telling about credits and how his stuff was used in Jagger/Richards songs, how they sponge things and used his stuff in their songs. Also praises Charlie and Bill and says the credit thing is passé.

Keiths style from 1968/1969 is very very influenced by Ry and there are licks lifted from Ry, open and standard. Monkey man, Midnight Rambler (obviously from two songs on Jamming with Edwards, possibly other sessions as well), the riffing on Live with me etc. Which partly started to change in 1971 and actually through Mick's open G riffing style. And Keiths updated Berry/Cooder style.

Very interesting interview 1970 about the Stones

The riffing on LWM changed back to what he did on the original version, after he played parts of the bass riff in 69/70..

How can that sound like Cooder, btw?

Ry didn't play with the Stones until '69. Keith "took Ry" but let's not overstate the case. Keith was playing in open tuning long before and started to use it a lot in '68. There were a lot of people playing with the Stones: Nicky Hopkins, Dave Mason, then later Bobby Whitlock, Dr. John, Bobby Keyes, Mick Taylor obviously. The Stones seemed to treat it more like jazz players jamming, with the credits going to the session leaders and organizers - them.

Open tuning is one thing, style, techique, licks riffs etc is another. Keith recorded Ry and used Ry. Keith says so himself. Fans have a problem with this. I dont, I think they're both great. Keith's style changed in the 70s and to me that's when his own real style emerges.

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DandelionPowderman

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Redhotcarpet
There's an audio interview from 1970 on this page. It's not the Rolling Stone interview but very telling about credits and how his stuff was used in Jagger/Richards songs, how they sponge things and used his stuff in their songs. Also praises Charlie and Bill and says the credit thing is passé.

Keiths style from 1968/1969 is very very influenced by Ry and there are licks lifted from Ry, open and standard. Monkey man, Midnight Rambler (obviously from two songs on Jamming with Edwards, possibly other sessions as well), the riffing on Live with me etc. Which partly started to change in 1971 and actually through Mick's open G riffing style. And Keiths updated Berry/Cooder style.

Very interesting interview 1970 about the Stones

The riffing on LWM changed back to what he did on the original version, after he played parts of the bass riff in 69/70..

How can that sound like Cooder, btw?

I was actually thinking of the ryhthm. I know nobody here can stand any kind of disussion about their music and styles and how they changed and why, who did what etc. It's sad really because it's interesting.

Discussion is fine, but when I feel the musical grounds are wonky I usually speak up.

Had you said the rhythm in the first place, maybe a few would have understood what you had in mind. I don't agree on LWM, mainly because I think it evolved from Keith's typical "guitar" bass playing, but keep those theories coming, mate

Here's a recent Ry Cooder tune which has some nice rhythm guitar & tasty slide. The man does not disappoint.

[www.youtube.com]

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Redhotcarpet
There's an audio interview from 1970 on this page. It's not the Rolling Stone interview but very telling about credits and how his stuff was used in Jagger/Richards songs, how they sponge things and used his stuff in their songs. Also praises Charlie and Bill and says the credit thing is passé.

Keiths style from 1968/1969 is very very influenced by Ry and there are licks lifted from Ry, open and standard. Monkey man, Midnight Rambler (obviously from two songs on Jamming with Edwards, possibly other sessions as well), the riffing on Live with me etc. Which partly started to change in 1971 and actually through Mick's open G riffing style. And Keiths updated Berry/Cooder style.

Very interesting interview 1970 about the Stones

regarding monkey man and midnight rambler, do you have any evidence for the accusation? the fact that it appears on jamming with edward doesn't count, for all we know keith was playing those riffs months before hand. sometimes when musicians are in the studio they collaborate, share, and play parts that another one came up with. it's part of being a musician. i'm not sure how you can claim where the origination was.

Forgive me if this has already been discussed, but I heard about a Ry Cooder interview where he says that there was a tape of him playing with the stones on a song. Afterwords, Keith erased his parts and re-recorded it playing the exact same thing.

Cooder never said Keith erased his parts.

He used the recordings.

You don't know for what, though. There's a long way from copying what Cooder recorded note for note on the LIB-songs and being inspired by many random licks from the tapes.

I really don't think Cooder played on all the LIB-stuff, so Keith must have worked differently than you and others are insinuating. Or do you belive he wrote the songs based on Cooder's ideas, and that Ry let that pass?

I don't doubt that he knicked a few licks, though, but that's probably it. No need to make it bigger than it is, imo.

Ry seems to think differently. He played a lot, he was recorded and his stuff was then used in Stones songs. Thats how they work.

That's how everybody works, except for the recording to tape-part..

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DandelionPowderman

so Keith must have worked differently than you and others are insinuating. Or do you belive he wrote the songs based on Cooder's ideas, and that Ry let that pass?

I don't doubt that he knicked a few licks, though, but that's probably it. No need to make it bigger than it is, imo.

I wasn' tyring to insinusate, I was just saying I had heard that. I don't know if its true or not.

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ryanpow

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DandelionPowderman

so Keith must have worked differently than you and others are insinuating. Or do you belive he wrote the songs based on Cooder's ideas, and that Ry let that pass?

I don't doubt that he knicked a few licks, though, but that's probably it. No need to make it bigger than it is, imo.

I wasn' tyring to insinusate, I was just saying I had heard that. I don't know if its true or not.

so what, the guy who had just come up with beggars banquet and went on to do sticky fingers and exile suddenly was incapable for 4 months in 1969 to come up with his own guitar parts and was so desperate he ripped them off ry colder? don't you find it a more likely explanation that he and ry cooder collaborated as musicians will and the rumors are just rumors and perhaps a product of some resentment and jealous on ry's part?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-17 06:21 by sonomastone.

In the case where I heard it, no not really. Like I said, I don't know if its true or not. I was just seeing if anyone else had heard this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-17 06:40 by ryanpow.

You'll find the sources to be rock journalists...