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The picking between the verse lines does. But I agree, people put way too much into this, although Keith probably wouldn't have pulled off the beautiful slide guitar on Love In Vain without being inspired by Cooder.
No no no. Ry Cooder played a huge part in the Stones and Keiths way of playing guitar, its much more than Rambler, HTW or Monkey man.
Ry Cooder IS a tremendous guitar player..."one trick?" What are you talking about? As opposed to Keith being an innovator? When? Besides his open G riffing in the early 70's what has he done that is "new"?
you a big james brown fan? when you introduce yourself, for instance?
Sorry to piss on your chips as they say, but I have been a guitarist for 20+ years and in those years played a wide range of styles from bluegrass to jazz via classical. I'm the proud owner of 5 guitars and a banjo. Don't assume, get the facts.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Ry Cooder/Honky Tonk Women
Posted by:
howled
()
Date: December 8, 2011 14:24
[www.ryland-cooder.com]
"Although fairly famous, he is nothing like as famous as he should have been. In 1969, Cooder, a guest slide-guitarist on the Sticky Fingers (Let It Bleed) album, was tipped to replace Brian Jones in the Rolling Stones. He was further credited with having made up the guitar riff to Honky Tonk Women. That he now insists: "Oh man, it wasn't my tuning or chord progression -- I got it from John Lee Hooker" says as much about his deep respect for tradition as it does about his self-promotional acumen."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-06 09:58 by howled.
"Although fairly famous, he is nothing like as famous as he should have been. In 1969, Cooder, a guest slide-guitarist on the Sticky Fingers (Let It Bleed) album, was tipped to replace Brian Jones in the Rolling Stones. He was further credited with having made up the guitar riff to Honky Tonk Women. That he now insists: "Oh man, it wasn't my tuning or chord progression -- I got it from John Lee Hooker" says as much about his deep respect for tradition as it does about his self-promotional acumen."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-06 09:58 by howled.
Re: Ry Cooder/Honky Tonk Women
Posted by:
texas fan
()
Date: December 8, 2011 14:42
This has been beaten to death. Listen to Ry Cooder's work over his career and then listen to Keith's. Ry influenced Keith for a very short period with his one trick that he could do. The influence was substantial and evident on Let it Bleed, but even then -- there's no way Cooder could've produced Rambler or Let it Bleed. Oh, and by the way, what about the fact that most of the album sounds nothing like Ry Cooder?
Keith wrote the riff to Honky Tonk Women -- that guitar part does not sound like Ry Cooder. Keith's later open-g stuff owes nothing to Ry Cooder -- he explored it and mined much more out of it. Ry was/is a fine, innovative player, but he hasn't innovated in a long time. They really shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath.
He was an influence, but much less so than Chuck Berry, Jimmy Reed, etc...Flavor of the month...
Keith wrote the riff to Honky Tonk Women -- that guitar part does not sound like Ry Cooder. Keith's later open-g stuff owes nothing to Ry Cooder -- he explored it and mined much more out of it. Ry was/is a fine, innovative player, but he hasn't innovated in a long time. They really shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath.
He was an influence, but much less so than Chuck Berry, Jimmy Reed, etc...Flavor of the month...
Re: Ry Cooder/Honky Tonk Women
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: December 8, 2011 14:54
Quote
texas fan
This has been beaten to death. Listen to Ry Cooder's work over his career and then listen to Keith's. Ry influenced Keith for a very short period with his one trick that he could do. The influence was substantial and evident on Let it Bleed, but even then -- there's no way Cooder could've produced Rambler or Let it Bleed. Oh, and by the way, what about the fact that most of the album sounds nothing like Ry Cooder?
Keith wrote the riff to Honky Tonk Women -- that guitar part does not sound like Ry Cooder. Keith's later open-g stuff owes nothing to Ry Cooder -- he explored it and mined much more out of it. Ry was/is a fine, innovative player, but he hasn't innovated in a long time. They really shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath.
He was an influence, but much less so than Chuck Berry, Jimmy Reed, etc...Flavor of the month...
The picking between the verse lines does. But I agree, people put way too much into this, although Keith probably wouldn't have pulled off the beautiful slide guitar on Love In Vain without being inspired by Cooder.
Re: Ry Cooder/Honky Tonk Women
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: December 8, 2011 15:19
Licks found in Performance version of Memo From Turner appear in HTW, but Ry himself puts all this to bed in the above quote posted by howled. 
Re: Ry Cooder/Honky Tonk Women
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: December 8, 2011 19:21
Quote
texas fan
This has been beaten to death. Listen to Ry Cooder's work over his career and then listen to Keith's. Ry influenced Keith for a very short period with his one trick that he could do. The influence was substantial and evident on Let it Bleed, but even then -- there's no way Cooder could've produced Rambler or Let it Bleed. Oh, and by the way, what about the fact that most of the album sounds nothing like Ry Cooder?
Keith wrote the riff to Honky Tonk Women -- that guitar part does not sound like Ry Cooder. Keith's later open-g stuff owes nothing to Ry Cooder -- he explored it and mined much more out of it. Ry was/is a fine, innovative player, but he hasn't innovated in a long time. They really shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath.
He was an influence, but much less so than Chuck Berry, Jimmy Reed, etc...Flavor of the month...
No no no. Ry Cooder played a huge part in the Stones and Keiths way of playing guitar, its much more than Rambler, HTW or Monkey man.
Re: Ry Cooder/Honky Tonk Women
Posted by:
stones78
()
Date: December 8, 2011 19:41
Quote
texas fan
This has been beaten to death. Listen to Ry Cooder's work over his career and then listen to Keith's. Ry influenced Keith for a very short period with his one trick that he could do. The influence was substantial and evident on Let it Bleed, but even then -- there's no way Cooder could've produced Rambler or Let it Bleed. Oh, and by the way, what about the fact that most of the album sounds nothing like Ry Cooder?
Keith wrote the riff to Honky Tonk Women -- that guitar part does not sound like Ry Cooder. Keith's later open-g stuff owes nothing to Ry Cooder -- he explored it and mined much more out of it. Ry was/is a fine, innovative player, but he hasn't innovated in a long time. They really shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath.
He was an influence, but much less so than Chuck Berry, Jimmy Reed, etc...Flavor of the month...
Ry Cooder IS a tremendous guitar player..."one trick?" What are you talking about? As opposed to Keith being an innovator? When? Besides his open G riffing in the early 70's what has he done that is "new"?
Re: Ry Cooder/Honky Tonk Women
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: December 8, 2011 19:45
after a nearly 20-year hiatus from making solo records (love the soundtrack stuff, too), ryland's been on a roll the past few years, including this year's fabulous "pull up some dust" record...rock on ryland....
Re: Ry Cooder/Honky Tonk Women
Posted by:
Phil Good
()
Date: December 8, 2011 20:31
It's beaten to death here and elsewhere, yes.
But I have the strong feeling that most of the guys (or girls?) who are debating about this topic are anything else but guitarists or at least musicians.
So cobbler, stay to your last. PLEASE.
But I have the strong feeling that most of the guys (or girls?) who are debating about this topic are anything else but guitarists or at least musicians.
So cobbler, stay to your last. PLEASE.
Re: Ry Cooder/Honky Tonk Women
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: December 8, 2011 20:55
Quote
Phil Good
It's beaten to death here and elsewhere, yes.
But I have the strong feeling that most of the guys (or girls?) who are debating about this topic are anything else but guitarists or at least musicians.
So cobbler, stay to your last. PLEASE.
you a big james brown fan? when you introduce yourself, for instance?
Re: Ry Cooder/Honky Tonk Women
Posted by:
crumbling_mice
()
Date: December 8, 2011 22:11
Quote
Phil Good
It's beaten to death here and elsewhere, yes.
But I have the strong feeling that most of the guys (or girls?) who are debating about this topic are anything else but guitarists or at least musicians.
So cobbler, stay to your last. PLEASE.
Sorry to piss on your chips as they say, but I have been a guitarist for 20+ years and in those years played a wide range of styles from bluegrass to jazz via classical. I'm the proud owner of 5 guitars and a banjo. Don't assume, get the facts.
Re: Ry Cooder/Honky Tonk Women
Posted by:
texas fan
()
Date: December 8, 2011 23:03
I've been playing guitar longer than many of you have been alive, but it doesn't make my opinion any more valuable. Just because someone owns a few guitars doesn't mean they understand music more than the next person.
I do understand, however, that music is not just the notes that are played; musical notation is not music. The noise that's made -- the sound you hear -- is the music. So, identifying the fact that someone plays a certain note, or combination of notes,really doesn't capture the music. It's just a way we've developed to describe the music, and it's completely inadequate to describe the sound we hear and why we respond to it the way we do.
Ry Cooder is a really good guitar player who had a signficant inluence on Keith and, therefore, the sound of the band (to some extent) for a short period of time. I do not believe he influenced music generally like Keith has, and in fact don't think he was a signifcant influence, even as guitar player, on the guitar playing community as a whole. He did not, for example, invent open tuning. He did use a particular tuning in a particular way that was unique and impactful, at least to Keith, but I don't hear a widespread influence on popular music, or even on the Stones sound, after Let it Bleed.
As to Keith, most of us agree that his playing has been impacted/influenced by a number of people over his career. He takes a little here and a little there and puts his own twist on it to create a sound that is, ultimately, Keith's. Ry Cooder was just one of those sources. Keith is more important than most guitarists, even better ones, because he's not just a guitar player -- he's a musician that happens to play guitar.
I still think the the sound that is HTW came from Keith, but it's an interesting debate.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-08 23:05 by texas fan.
I do understand, however, that music is not just the notes that are played; musical notation is not music. The noise that's made -- the sound you hear -- is the music. So, identifying the fact that someone plays a certain note, or combination of notes,really doesn't capture the music. It's just a way we've developed to describe the music, and it's completely inadequate to describe the sound we hear and why we respond to it the way we do.
Ry Cooder is a really good guitar player who had a signficant inluence on Keith and, therefore, the sound of the band (to some extent) for a short period of time. I do not believe he influenced music generally like Keith has, and in fact don't think he was a signifcant influence, even as guitar player, on the guitar playing community as a whole. He did not, for example, invent open tuning. He did use a particular tuning in a particular way that was unique and impactful, at least to Keith, but I don't hear a widespread influence on popular music, or even on the Stones sound, after Let it Bleed.
As to Keith, most of us agree that his playing has been impacted/influenced by a number of people over his career. He takes a little here and a little there and puts his own twist on it to create a sound that is, ultimately, Keith's. Ry Cooder was just one of those sources. Keith is more important than most guitarists, even better ones, because he's not just a guitar player -- he's a musician that happens to play guitar.
I still think the the sound that is HTW came from Keith, but it's an interesting debate.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-08 23:05 by texas fan.
Re: Ry Cooder/Honky Tonk Women
Posted by:
crumbling_mice
()
Date: December 8, 2011 23:29
Quote
texas fan
I've been playing guitar longer than many of you have been alive, but it doesn't make my opinion any more valuable. Just because someone owns a few guitars doesn't mean they understand music more than the next person.
Neither does the length of time you've been playing!
Re: Ry Cooder/Honky Tonk Women
Posted by:
texas fan
()
Date: December 8, 2011 23:50
Of course, Mice. Totally agree.
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