Regarding Bernard Purdies longstanding claim to have dubbed drums on to Beatles tracks- always intrigued but sceptical... but the guy is a legend in the music world and had no reason to lie- a little digging reveals he didnt play on the originals- he was dubbed onto the live Star Club in Hamburg stuff that came out in the late 70s. I actually saw him credited on Allmusic- I cant recall exactly which iteration, that stuff was recompiled and re-released more than once. So he wasnt making it up..but it wasnt quite what it seemed.

I don't believe Purdie. I worked with him on several occasions and he is a lunatic and besides he lives in New Jersey. Purdie has become a legend based on the sessions he didn't do and he has made himself famous because of it. Don't get me wrong he is one fantastic drummer. His ability to tune and mute a kit is beyond genius. He can make any track groove, when you see him play all is forgiven. I can guarantee Bernard couldn't tell the difference from playing on a Beatles song vs any other session. If he saw one Beatle or Stone it was them. While I still believe Ringo did mostly his own parts with some help from Paul and careful tom-tom overdubs, the latest rumor I've heard was the early Beatles used Keith Moon who apparently was great at The Mersey Beat. Some of this may be from a conversation overheard at a night club between all 5 back in the day. Stones have been honest about when Charlie's been subbed, in some of the 80's stuff I found Charlie along with another drummer sort of imitating him. Mick had us mostly toss those away I believe although we could have used some fills very easily. There were as many as 96 tracks going for songs on "Dirty Work", some stereo, maybe 12 for each drum kit. Today tracking is limitless and one can imagine what went on for D&G. More often than not this type of noncommittal over the top recording results in an unfocused overly thick record.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-07-21 16:32 by DoomandGloom.

Why would he lie?

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Gooo
Why would he lie?

Well it's made him famous. He is a very odd man, me saying more would be inappropriate. Lying or not he would not know a Badfinger session from a Beatle session from a Linda Hopkins session. He was in fact a session drummer he could have played on A Hard Day's Night Soundtrack or Yellow Sub or any of the stuff produced in The Beatles' world but replace Ringo? Much of the raw tracks are around and listening to them tells me Ringo is the drummer. There is one curiosity, Ringo toweling his drums on Let It Be, this is a well known Purdie trick.

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DoomandGloom

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Gooo
Why would he lie?

Well it's made him famous. He is a very odd man, me saying more would be inappropriate. Lying or not he would not know a Badfinger session from a Beatle session from a Linda Hopkins session. He was in fact a session drummer he could have played on A Hard Day's Night Soundtrack or Yellow Sub or any of the stuff produced in The Beatles' world but replace Ringo? Much of the raw tracks are around and listening to them tells me Ringo is the drummer. There is one curiosity, Ringo toweling his drums on Let It Be, this is a well known Purdie trick.

Ringo toweled his drums well before Let It Be, which has been documented in the different accounts by people like Geoff Emerick and the other engineers. Keith Moon was never used on a Beatles session. The Beatles' sessions have been very well documented and witnessed. Other than Paul playing on some of the White Album and Ballad of John and Yoko, and George Martin's use of Andy White on Love Me Do (Ringo relegated to tambourine) there simply are no other drummers on Beatles sessions.

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71Tele

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DoomandGloom

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Gooo
Why would he lie?

Well it's made him famous. He is a very odd man, me saying more would be inappropriate. Lying or not he would not know a Badfinger session from a Beatle session from a Linda Hopkins session. He was in fact a session drummer he could have played on A Hard Day's Night Soundtrack or Yellow Sub or any of the stuff produced in The Beatles' world but replace Ringo? Much of the raw tracks are around and listening to them tells me Ringo is the drummer. There is one curiosity, Ringo toweling his drums on Let It Be, this is a well known Purdie trick.

Ringo toweled his drums well before Let It Be, which has been documented in the different accounts by people like Geoff Emerick and the other engineers. Keith Moon was never used on a Beatles session. The Beatles' sessions have been very well documented and witnessed. Other than Paul playing on some of the White Album and Ballad of John and Yoko, and George Martin's use of Andy White on Love Me Do (Ringo relegated to tambourine) there simply are no other drummers on Beatles sessions.

I don't believe Purdie and agree with you Tele, the Moon story is just a rumor that's going around. The muting of drums is a Purdie trick, Ringo could have learned it from Bernard at Abbey Road. Ringo says his own best drumming is Tomorrow Never Knows, this is one track Purdie claims he remembers recording. I doubt Ringo would choose to brag about his great playing here if it were not him. I do disagree with you about Paul and think he's responsible for more drumming than that. Still this is a RS site and Purdie did not play for Charlie....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-07-21 19:08 by DoomandGloom.

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DoomandGloom

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71Tele

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DoomandGloom

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Gooo
Why would he lie?

Well it's made him famous. He is a very odd man, me saying more would be inappropriate. Lying or not he would not know a Badfinger session from a Beatle session from a Linda Hopkins session. He was in fact a session drummer he could have played on A Hard Day's Night Soundtrack or Yellow Sub or any of the stuff produced in The Beatles' world but replace Ringo? Much of the raw tracks are around and listening to them tells me Ringo is the drummer. There is one curiosity, Ringo toweling his drums on Let It Be, this is a well known Purdie trick.

Ringo toweled his drums well before Let It Be, which has been documented in the different accounts by people like Geoff Emerick and the other engineers. Keith Moon was never used on a Beatles session. The Beatles' sessions have been very well documented and witnessed. Other than Paul playing on some of the White Album and Ballad of John and Yoko, and George Martin's use of Andy White on Love Me Do (Ringo relegated to tambourine) there simply are no other drummers on Beatles sessions.

I don't believe Purdie and agree with you Tele, the Moon story is just a rumor that's going around. The muting of drums is a Purdie trick, Ringo could have learned it from Bernard at Abbey Road. Ringo says his own best drumming is Tomorrow Never Knows, this is one track Purdie claims he remembers recording. I doubt Ringo would choose to brag about his great playing here if it were not him. I do disagree with you about Paul and think he's responsible for more drumming than that. Still this is a RS site and Purdie did not play for Charlie....

You seem to know your stuff, so I am not claiming any kind of exclusive knowledge, to be clear. But if you do think Paul played drums on more tracks, which ones? There were a lot of witnesses to the Beatle sessions. I am not saying it's impossible, just that I can't think of any tracks that sound particularly like Paul, other than the known ones (I know he basically "wrote" the drum part on Ticket To Ride, but I don't think he played it). As for Purdie. He's a great drummer, but he's nuts. Not sure why he would try to take credit for things he didn't play on when he already has a legitimately great reputation. Sort of like Carole Kaye claiming she played on Motown tracks that no one else remembers her playing on, but that's another debate...Cheers.

Thanks Tele , you are one of the best posters here. I'd have to listen but there's some stuff on SGT Pepper and the back of Abbey Road that sounds like Paul. He would definably add fills on top of Ringo's basic. There's pictures plus it's common practice with songwriters and producers. Kaye may have some delusions but session folks were really busy and producers often retook a song with a different line-up. I was once busy like that and see my name on albums that I do not remember working on. I am sure the reverse is true where I visited a date and now think I recorded it. Music is a very exciting life and a person can go on for years without really touching the ground.

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DoomandGloom
Thanks Tele , you are one of the best posters here. I'd have to listen but there's some stuff on SGT Pepper and the back of Abbey Road that sounds like Paul. He would definably add fills on top of Ringo's basic. There's pictures plus it's common practice with songwriters and producers. Kaye may have some delusions but session folks were really busy and producers often retook a song with a different line-up. I was once busy like that and see my name on albums that I do not remember working on. I am sure the reverse is true where I visited a date and now think I recorded it. Music is a very exciting life and a person can go on for years without really touching the ground.

Thanks for the compliment. Nice to hear from someone who has actually worked on the "inside" for a change. Your posts are very informative.

<<I'd have to listen but there's some stuff on SGT Pepper and the back of Abbey Road that sounds like Paul.>>

In terms of guitar, yes, Paul had a larger presence on those albums as well as some notable tracks before then. For instance, he played the lead on Another Girl, as well as bits in Ticket To Ride--the ones at the ends of "She ought to think twice, she ought to do right by me" and the playout at the end. He also plays the lead in George's song Taxman. When pressed for time and with George having difficulty with the lead, Paul stepped in and basically showed him up. Then there's Good Morning, Good Morning from Sgt. Pepper, and side 2 of Abbey Road on some tracks. There's also the notable instance where each Beatle spars by doing a lead bit in The End: [www.youtube.com]

As for drums, aside from the single Ballad of John & Yoko, it's just the White album, where Ringo was absent for a short while. Back In The U.S.S.R. features drumming from Paul on the basic track as well as additional, later contributions from both John and George, and Paul also played the drums for Why Don't We Do It In The Road and Wild Honey Pie. Also Dear Prudence.

Also, the bass drum on Mother Nature's Son, according to Ken Scott: [recordingthebeatles.com]

According to Ringo, Paul didn't play the drums all that often in the Beatles--it was lead guitar where his extracurricular activities are more numerous and notable.

Paul talks about his drumming in an October 2005 issue of DRUM! Magazine: [www.drummagazine.com]

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71Tele
Interesting that Wood appears on an album before he joined the Stones (IORR) and Taylor appears on one after he (Taylor) left the Stones (Tattoo You).

Taylor's playing was recorded from early demos/takes well before Tattoo You came out and they didn't wipe him off the finished takes, amazingly.
But you probably knew that.....

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hypnohighball

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71Tele
Interesting that Wood appears on an album before he joined the Stones (IORR) and Taylor appears on one after he (Taylor) left the Stones (Tattoo You).

Taylor's playing was recorded from early demos/takes well before Tattoo You came out and they didn't wipe him off the finished takes, amazingly.
But you probably knew that.....

I did. "Appeared" doesn't necessarily mean played on after he left.

Maybe Andrew Oldham used Bernhard Purdie to substitute some drum track(s) on the demos which made the Metamorphosis-album? Oldham used Trod Nossels Studios in Connecticut (which is not too far from New Jersey) and also used a variety of other studio musicians, like Jon Tiven, Doug Schlink, Paul Ossola, Vic Steffens and Christine Ohlman, who all remain uncredited on the album sleeve.

N

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spbetz
Hi Group,

This must have been discussed many times in the past, but I heard an interview with Keith that Kenny Jones played drums on "It's Only Rock 'N' Roll" initially but then Charlie took over.

But listening to the track, the drumming does not seem to have that classic tension that Charlie is famous for, so I'm thinking that the drumming IS Kenny Jones' and that the group just went with what they had...

Am I incorrect?



Thanks,
Steve

You are correct about Jones playing the drums

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stonehearted
<<I'd have to listen but there's some stuff on SGT Pepper and the back of Abbey Road that sounds like Paul.>>

In terms of guitar, yes, Paul had a larger presence on those albums as well as some notable tracks before then. For instance, he played the lead on Another Girl, as well as bits in Ticket To Ride--the ones at the ends of "She ought to think twice, she ought to do right by me" and the playout at the end. He also plays the lead in George's song Taxman. When pressed for time and with George having difficulty with the lead, Paul stepped in and basically showed him up. Then there's Good Morning, Good Morning from Sgt. Pepper, and side 2 of Abbey Road on some tracks. There's also the notable instance where each Beatle spars by doing a lead bit in The End: [www.youtube.com]

As for drums, aside from the single Ballad of John & Yoko, it's just the White album, where Ringo was absent for a short while. Back In The U.S.S.R. features drumming from Paul on the basic track as well as additional, later contributions from both John and George, and Paul also played the drums for Why Don't We Do It In The Road and Wild Honey Pie. Also Dear Prudence.

Also, the bass drum on Mother Nature's Son, according to Ken Scott: [recordingthebeatles.com]

According to Ringo, Paul didn't play the drums all that often in the Beatles--it was lead guitar where his extracurricular activities are more numerous and notable.

Paul talks about his drumming in an October 2005 issue of DRUM! Magazine: [www.drummagazine.com]

Thanks... Yes "USSR" wow that's a surprise... He does a great job. An amazing musician Paul, amazing vision. I knew a guy who recorded demos for The Glimmers and he claimed between the 2 of them they could make recordings that sounded the same as the entire band. These guys were not just lucky, they were highly focused and learned how to harness their great gifts. I knew all the Paul stuff besides "Another Girl" but could guess it if I had listened. Paul's lead style reminds me of Pete Townsend. Focused on major chords and not overly bluesy. Lennon, Macca, George they could all rise to the occasion. Good Morning is my fav Paul riff track. Sounds like his Casino but could be the Esqire/Supro rig we see photos of. Thanks, Stonehearted..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-07-23 01:37 by DoomandGloom.

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DoomandGloom

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stonehearted
<<I'd have to listen but there's some stuff on SGT Pepper and the back of Abbey Road that sounds like Paul.>>

In terms of guitar, yes, Paul had a larger presence on those albums as well as some notable tracks before then. For instance, he played the lead on Another Girl, as well as bits in Ticket To Ride--the ones at the ends of "She ought to think twice, she ought to do right by me" and the playout at the end. He also plays the lead in George's song Taxman. When pressed for time and with George having difficulty with the lead, Paul stepped in and basically showed him up. Then there's Good Morning, Good Morning from Sgt. Pepper, and side 2 of Abbey Road on some tracks. There's also the notable instance where each Beatle spars by doing a lead bit in The End: [www.youtube.com]

As for drums, aside from the single Ballad of John & Yoko, it's just the White album, where Ringo was absent for a short while. Back In The U.S.S.R. features drumming from Paul on the basic track as well as additional, later contributions from both John and George, and Paul also played the drums for Why Don't We Do It In The Road and Wild Honey Pie. Also Dear Prudence.

Also, the bass drum on Mother Nature's Son, according to Ken Scott: [recordingthebeatles.com]

According to Ringo, Paul didn't play the drums all that often in the Beatles--it was lead guitar where his extracurricular activities are more numerous and notable.

Paul talks about his drumming in an October 2005 issue of DRUM! Magazine: [www.drummagazine.com]

Thanks... Yes "USSR" wow that's a surprise... He does a great job. An amazing musician Paul, amazing vision. I knew a guy who recorded demos for The Glimmers and he claimed between the 2 of them they could make recordings that sounded the same as the entire band. These guys were not just lucky, they were highly focused and learned how to harness their great gifts. I knew all the Paul stuff besides "Another Girl" but could guess it if I had listened. Paul's lead style reminds me of Pete Townsend. Focused on major chords and not overly bluesy. Lennon, Macca, George they could all rise to the occasion. Good Morning is my fav Paul riff track. Sounds like his Casino but could be the Esqire/Supro rig we see photos of. Thanks, Stonehearted..

Paul & John could do that too, as evidenced by The Ballad Of John & Yoko (John on guitars, Paul on drums, bass, piano).

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stonehearted
<<I'd have to listen but there's some stuff on SGT Pepper and the back of Abbey Road that sounds like Paul.>>

In terms of guitar, yes, Paul had a larger presence on those albums as well as some notable tracks before then. For instance, he played the lead on Another Girl, as well as bits in Ticket To Ride--the ones at the ends of "She ought to think twice, she ought to do right by me" and the playout at the end. He also plays the lead in George's song Taxman. When pressed for time and with George having difficulty with the lead, Paul stepped in and basically showed him up. Then there's Good Morning, Good Morning from Sgt. Pepper, and side 2 of Abbey Road on some tracks. There's also the notable instance where each Beatle spars by doing a lead bit in The End: [www.youtube.com]

As for drums, aside from the single Ballad of John & Yoko, it's just the White album, where Ringo was absent for a short while. Back In The U.S.S.R. features drumming from Paul on the basic track as well as additional, later contributions from both John and George, and Paul also played the drums for Why Don't We Do It In The Road and Wild Honey Pie. Also Dear Prudence.

Also, the bass drum on Mother Nature's Son, according to Ken Scott: [recordingthebeatles.com]

According to Ringo, Paul didn't play the drums all that often in the Beatles--it was lead guitar where his extracurricular activities are more numerous and notable.

Paul talks about his drumming in an October 2005 issue of DRUM! Magazine: [www.drummagazine.com]

I think it's Paul's lead guitar for the song SGT Pepper and it's reprise.

[www.youtube.com]