Listening to this track!
Can't tell if Taylors guitar is original or new!

Anyone who has an idea?

Been Stoned since 1964 and still am!

Original. The only track Taylor added anything to is 'Plundered My Soul'. Thats been confirmed now by Jagger, Don Was and Taylor himself.

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Gazza
Original. The only track Taylor added anything to is 'Plundered My Soul'. Thats been confirmed now by Jagger, Don Was and Taylor himself.

Thanks for the info!

Been Stoned since 1964 and still am!

What about the vocal on this song, though?

1971, I think, although some people have said they reckon it's new. And the harmonica? maybe a 1972 overdub?

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Gazza
What about the vocal on this song, though?

1971, I think, although some people have said they reckon it's new. And the harmonica? maybe a 1972 overdub?

Good question, Gazza!

Been Stoned since 1964 and still am!

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Fan Since 1964

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Gazza
What about the vocal on this song, though?

1971, I think, although some people have said they reckon it's new. And the harmonica? maybe a 1972 overdub?

Good question, Gazza!

I guess the harp is a 2009 recording. Sounds like his harp playing and sound since Steel Wheels. Also the horns seems to me a 2009 recording.

But I'm not certain of course. Just by hearing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-05-21 14:50 by Muddyw.

i love this tune.

I think it's a new vocal.All the other 'new' songs have modern Mick overdubs whereas all the alternates have original vocals.The circulated other take is fantastic so why not include that.It stills sounds great but the other take is better imo



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-05-21 16:09 by still ill.

I think its the original vocal and original Taylor guitar. New vocals and lyrics only on five tracks: Pass the Wine, Plundered My Soul, Following the River, Dancing in the Light, and So Divine.

Certainly original Taylor, I guess new vocals (very nasal, which Jagger hadn't at that time, at least not on a recorded song), also new harp (confirmed by Jagger himself in the Dutch NOVA-interview). Doubts about the horns, sound very atypical (especially at the very end of the song) and new. Imo the old version is way more bluesy and has much better guitar licks. The guitar plays no role anymore, is buried in the mix and dominated by both the harp and the horns.

Old vocals and guitars without any doubt. Both very near the bootleged version.
New harmonica also whithout doubt.
Less sure about the horns.

There's no way that slide guitar is new. That sound could never be done again! The harmonica - I really like it - but it oddly seems out of place.

Listening to the guitar boot version now. As much as I like this one and as much as I've liked it for all these years, I'm convinced that the released version is the better one because it actually does something ha ha.

I Ain't Lying

Everything on it is old, vocals, guitars, piano, drums, whatever.

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kleermaker
Certainly original Taylor, I guess new vocals (very nasal, which Jagger hadn't at that time, at least not on a recorded song), also new harp (confirmed by Jagger himself in the Dutch NOVA-interview). Doubts about the horns, sound very atypical (especially at the very end of the song) and new. Imo the old version is way more bluesy and has much better guitar licks. The guitar plays no role anymore, is buried in the mix and dominated by both the harp and the horns.

I personally think its an old vocal. Sounds very like Jagger's style of faux-black diction from the early 70s. Doesnt sound as 'nasal' as his other latter day vocals.

The horns are credited to Bobby Keys and Jim Price, and I havent read or heard anywhere that they were involved in any of the overdub sessions.

Thanks for the info on the harp overdubs.

i have a pdf file of the complete works and there it says just :I aint signyfying (MJ/KR).
go online now and it is changed to: I aint signyfying I MJ/KR
so a lot gotta be new.

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straycatblues73
i have a pdf file of the complete works and there it says just :I aint signyfying (MJ/KR).
go online now and it is changed to: I aint signyfying I MJ/KR
so a lot gotta be new.

The way I see it, the I just means there is a version II as well - regardless of how much later it was recorded...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-05-21 19:28 by rootsman.

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rootsman

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straycatblues73
i have a pdf file of the complete works and there it says just :I aint signyfying (MJ/KR).
go online now and it is changed to: I aint signyfying I MJ/KR
so a lot gotta be new.

The way I see it, the I just means there is a version II as well - regardless of when it was recorded...

Correct. The bootleg version is obviously earlier. Previously there was only one known version, hence no need for I, II, etc.

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rootsman

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straycatblues73
i have a pdf file of the complete works and there it says just :I aint signyfying (MJ/KR).
go online now and it is changed to: I aint signyfying I MJ/KR
so a lot gotta be new.

The way I see it, the I just means there is a version II as well - regardless of when it was recorded...

but it has changed just recently , there was never a II before

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straycatblues73

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rootsman

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straycatblues73
i have a pdf file of the complete works and there it says just :I aint signyfying (MJ/KR).
go online now and it is changed to: I aint signyfying I MJ/KR
so a lot gotta be new.

The way I see it, the I just means there is a version II as well - regardless of when it was recorded...

but it has changed just recently , there was never a II before

Pull your own conclusion. History rewritten, I guess.

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Gazza

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kleermaker
Certainly original Taylor, I guess new vocals (very nasal, which Jagger hadn't at that time, at least not on a recorded song), also new harp (confirmed by Jagger himself in the Dutch NOVA-interview). Doubts about the horns, sound very atypical (especially at the very end of the song) and new. Imo the old version is way more bluesy and has much better guitar licks. The guitar plays no role anymore, is buried in the mix and dominated by both the harp and the horns.

I personally think its an old vocal. Sounds very like Jagger's style of faux-black diction from the early 70s. Doesnt sound as 'nasal' as his other latter day vocals.

The horns are credited to Bobby Keys and Jim Price, and I havent read or heard anywhere that they were involved in any of the overdub sessions.

Thanks for the info on the harp overdubs.

Gazza, I never ever have heard Jagger sing so nasally. It sounds like an imitation of the young Jagger by the 2010 Jagger, just like he imitates Keith's voice so well on PMS. And as to the credits: read that little booklet, it's as incorrect as possible. Compare it to the old credible credits from 1972. In 1972 only Taylor plays bass on SAL. Now it's suddenly also Wyman according to the new credits. I'm sure it's only Taylor. Well, do you still believe those credits? Again: history rewritten.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-05-21 19:46 by kleermaker.

Surely the high harmony verse part on PMS is one of the female vocalists singing what Keith would have sang in the past!?

it sounds like early Jagger to me - the guitars sound old too.

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His Majesty
Surely the high harmony verse part on PMS is one of the female vocalists singing what Keith would have sang in the past!?

I don't think so HM, also because many here have stated that Jagger was/is a master in imitating Keith's high voice. But I'm not sure of course.

Well we know it's not Keith on Plundered. It's got to be Mick. He's done that kind of thing before, although it's been a while.

Isn't it nice to be able to come here and discuss this kind of stuff with other people? I don't know about you guys, but none of my friends know and/or don't care about any of this.

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skipstone
Well we know it's not Keith on Plundered. It's got to be Mick. He's done that kind of thing before, although it's been a while.

It doesn't matter, but I ain't convinced. The high harmony on PMS is quite, erm, high, but it's sang with such conviction and control.

Mick's just about able to maintain pitch in his more usual range, dunno if he'd be able to sing that high so well.

I'm sick of the song, but to me it sounds like Lisa or Cindy add the (Keith) style high harmony there, with both of them coming in for the chorus too.

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kleermaker

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Gazza

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kleermaker
Certainly original Taylor, I guess new vocals (very nasal, which Jagger hadn't at that time, at least not on a recorded song), also new harp (confirmed by Jagger himself in the Dutch NOVA-interview). Doubts about the horns, sound very atypical (especially at the very end of the song) and new. Imo the old version is way more bluesy and has much better guitar licks. The guitar plays no role anymore, is buried in the mix and dominated by both the harp and the horns.

I personally think its an old vocal. Sounds very like Jagger's style of faux-black diction from the early 70s. Doesnt sound as 'nasal' as his other latter day vocals.

The horns are credited to Bobby Keys and Jim Price, and I havent read or heard anywhere that they were involved in any of the overdub sessions.

Thanks for the info on the harp overdubs.

Gazza, I never ever have heard Jagger sing so nasally. It sounds like an imitation of the young Jagger by the 2010 Jagger, just like he imitates Keith's voice so well on PMS. And as to the credits: read that little booklet, it's as incorrect as possible. Compare it to the old credible credits from 1972. In 1972 only Taylor plays bass on SAL. Now it's suddenly also Wyman according to the new credits. I'm sure it's only Taylor. Well, do you still believe those credits? Again: history rewritten.

Well, I was quoting your expression 'nasal' as I wasnt sure of a suitable word for it myself.

However, to give an example of the vocal styles/enunciation I'm talking about - an example is 'I Just wanna see his face'. To me, that sounds similar to 'I'm Not Signifying', in that he sounds like he has a gobstopper in his mouth.

As for the credits. There's several inconsistencies between new and old versions and certainly some errors. (Strings on 'Happy' WTF?) The credits on the original album doesnt say that 'only' Taylor plays bass on the song. The design of the credits for each side of the album is such that they are very vague. At the top it lists the main musicians and the instruments they play on that selection of songs. Then under the song titles, it lists other credits. Eg - Bill Wyman is listed as 'bass' for side 1. the fact that Bill Plummer plays 'upright bass' on 'Rip This Joint', Richards plays bass on 'Casino Boogie' and Taylor plays bass on 'Tumbling Dice' doesnt automatically mean that Wyman doesnt play on those songs. There may have been an extra bass. Similarly Keith & Mick Taylor are listed as the guitarists on side 1 and Mick Jagger is just credited as 'vocal'. The listing of Mick Jagger as 'guitar' for 'Tumbling Dice' doesnt mean that Keith or Mick T dont play guitar on it, etc.

Anyway, I'm not sure if your point is that you're suggesting there are horn overdubs. If so, I dont think so. I havent seen or read a single article or interview that suggests that there are.

Do you guys have ears? These are obviously OLD vocals. Nowadays, Jagger couldn't sing the way he does on the track if his life depended on it.

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Gazza
As for the credits. There's several inconsistencies between new and old versions and certainly some errors. (Strings on 'Happy' WTF?) The credits on the original album doesnt say that 'only' Taylor plays bass on the song. The design of the credits for each side of the album is such that they are very vague. At the top it lists the main musicians and the instruments they play on that selection of songs. Then under the song titles, it lists other credits. Eg - Bill Wyman is listed as 'bass' for side 1. the fact that Bill Plummer plays 'upright bass' on 'Rip This Joint', Richards plays bass on 'Casino Boogie' and Taylor plays bass on 'Tumbling Dice' doesnt automatically mean that Wyman doesnt play on those songs. There may have been an extra bass. Similarly Keith & Mick Taylor are listed as the guitarists on side 1 and Mick Jagger is just credited as 'vocal'. The listing of Mick Jagger as 'guitar' for 'Tumbling Dice' doesnt mean that Keith or Mick T dont play guitar on it, etc.

Anyway, I'm not sure if your point is that you're suggesting there are horn overdubs. If so, I dont think so. I havent seen or read a single article or interview that suggests that there are.

That's how it certainly seems to be intended - the band, and then whatever was extra was given its own credit as well per track no matter who it was. And based on what we do know, they did not always use all 16 tracks when recording so there was plenty of room to add extra tracks. And there are a couple where nobody extra was listed so that's obviously JUST The Rolling Stones on those tracks in their specific roles. And yeah, the only noted new recordings are Mick with the various things he added, Keith and Mick T and the girls - although if I recall correctly they've only been specific about Plundered in actually talking about what has been done. The piano and horns were obviously already there and were not added in 2009.