Heard something the other day about Sid Bernstein "still going strong" at ninety-one years of age, and was reminded of the two full-page ads he placed in the NY Times Sunday Entertainment Section in 1976 and 1979, pitching the idea of a one-off reunion concert to the Beatles. The official story is that they "never responded" to these ads, but Bernstein claimed in a 2001 interview that Lennon DID request "more details" from Bernstein's office after seeing the second ad in '79. Here, in a 2007 piece, Macca says they considered Bernstein's first offer in 1976.

[exclaim.ca]

The offer was something like $100 million for a 20 minute concert. That's probably like $1 Billion in today's money. What do you think? Should they have done it? HOW would they have done it? A big closed-circuit TV extravaganza shown live in thousands of movie theatres all over the world, like the Ali-Frazier fights? How would it have looked? How would it have sounded? And what would they have played?

Well for that money who would not consider it? I have never heard about it, it is nice to speculate.

I can imagine that in 1976 the relationships were still really bad, but okay, we all work to earn money. We often work with people we don't like, that is normal. People who do big business with a lot of money involved are not usually friends, more likely regular enemies. That is all normal, so when 4 people who are maybe not the best friends at the moment get such an offer, I find it logical to consider it. I would :-) Should they have done it? If, then only for the money, so I am happy they didn't do it, but I wouldn't blame them if they did.

I wasnt sure about the details but I had heard the story. Of course YOKO would have probably demanded a song!! and THAT would have killed it anyway.

Here's the interview with Sid from 2001. He says Macca's response to the reunion offers was "It's more weight than our shoulders can carry" and that Lennon once told him that he "saw the top of the mountain" at the 1965 Shea Stadium concert.


[www.nyrock.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-04-02 17:17 by tatters.

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Happy24
Well for that money who would not consider it? I have never heard about it, it is nice to speculate.

I can imagine that in 1976 the relationships were still really bad, but okay, we all work to earn money. We often work with people we don't like, that is normal. People who do big business with a lot of money involved are not usually friends, more likely regular enemies. That is all normal, so when 4 people who are maybe not the best friends at the moment get such an offer, I find it logical to consider it. I would :-) Should they have done it? If, then only for the money, so I am happy they didn't do it, but I wouldn't blame them if they did.

Bernstein, in his pitch to the Beatles, said it was perfectly okay with HIM if they gave all of their earnings from the concert to charity.

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scottkeef
I wasnt sure about the details but I had heard the story. Of course YOKO would have probably demanded a song!! and THAT would have killed it anyway.

I lived in NY at the time and remember seeing those full-page ads in my Sunday paper. Would be cool if some Beatlemanic who still has them can post them. The first one was from right around the same time as the Wings Over America tour, when interest in a Bealtes reunion was at an all-time high. When the second ad appeared three years later, I remember thinking, "It's too late. It won't matter now. The moment's passed".

I think at that time it would have been disasterous. If Lennon had lived I think they would have reformed as a touring band with extra musicians around the time the Stones started the "Vegas"years................................................................................Although they may have ended up like ELO !

I think any reunion (who really thinks Anthology counts?) would have damaged their legacy which,by any standard is an amazing body of work IMHO.

scuk

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tatters

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Happy24
Well for that money who would not consider it? I have never heard about it, it is nice to speculate.

I can imagine that in 1976 the relationships were still really bad, but okay, we all work to earn money. We often work with people we don't like, that is normal. People who do big business with a lot of money involved are not usually friends, more likely regular enemies. That is all normal, so when 4 people who are maybe not the best friends at the moment get such an offer, I find it logical to consider it. I would :-) Should they have done it? If, then only for the money, so I am happy they didn't do it, but I wouldn't blame them if they did.

Bernstein, in his pitch to the Beatles, said it was perfectly okay with HIM if they gave all of their earnings from the concert to charity.

Well, if they did that concert and Bernstain payed them for that, then what would be the difference whether it would or would not be okay with HIM if THEY gave the money to the charity? :-) I can't see how should that help the Beatles to decide. They could of course use it for charity just like for anything else, that would not be up to Bernstein. Or was it menat that Bernstein's earning would go as well? But how would he earn anything after paying that amount of money to the Beatles?

And then Lorne Michaels offered them $3000.00 (as a joke) to appear on Saturday Night Live because that's all NBC could afford. And they almost did it. That would have been much cooler. George then did SNL a little later and (as a joke, again) demanded the entire $3000.00 when Lorne only gave him 25%. Great stuff!

I agree with Rochdale3, I think it would have been cool if John and Paul appeared on SNL. I thought I read somewhere that Paul and John were in NYC watching that as it happened and considered running down to 30 Rock and doing something. I think that would have been great.

sid's favorite hot dog is gray papaya at 86st.ive been to this place more than i want to admitt .this was a pick up after shows at the garden for a friend of mine that just cant get enough of this place .we also would stop for bagels at H&H ,the best bagels anywhere .i would get a everything bagel .as my friend said the everything bagels are boiled first and then thrown on the floor and whatever sticks on them is how you get a EVERYTHING bagel.

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lamemodem2
I agree with Rochdale3, I think it would have been cool if John and Paul appeared on SNL. I thought I read somewhere that Paul and John were in NYC watching that as it happened and considered running down to 30 Rock and doing something. I think that would have been great.

Yup, Lennon himself mentioned it in an 1980 interview (book -- David Sheff: "last interview" ), he said they were both too lazy to leave John's apartment and grab a cab, but it was a cool idea.

Edit: also, from the description box of the vid posted above: "Paul McCartney has commented in interviews that he and John Lennon were watching the SNL broadcast from Lennon's apartment in the Dakota on the night when Michaels made his offer for the Beatles to reunite. McCartney reported that he and Lennon briefly toyed with the idea of going down to the NBC studios and taking Michaels up on the offer."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2010-04-02 19:37 by Milan.

Anybody who can generate that amount of money whether it be for 20 mins or longer, who has a God given talent and is rich enough already should do so for charity. That money could have eased famine relief in Africa for many years.

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Milan

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lamemodem2
I agree with Rochdale3, I think it would have been cool if John and Paul appeared on SNL. I thought I read somewhere that Paul and John were in NYC watching that as it happened and considered running down to 30 Rock and doing something. I think that would have been great.

Yup, Lennon himself mentioned it in an 1980 interview (book -- David Sheff: "last interview" ), he said they were both too lazy to leave John's apartment and grab a cab, but it was a cool idea.

Edit: also, from the description box of the vid posted above: "Paul McCartney has commented in interviews that he and John Lennon were watching the SNL broadcast from Lennon's apartment in the Dakota on the night when Michaels made his offer for the Beatles to reunite. McCartney reported that he and Lennon briefly toyed with the idea of going down to the NBC studios and taking Michaels up on the offer."

was it the night of the offer, or the night George Harrison was there. I thought it might have been the latter, which would have virtually been a reunion.


Also, in the initial offer Lorne Michaels says something like "you can split the $3,000 any way you want; 25% each or you can give Ringo less."

Had they followed thru on Bernsteins offer, it would have been a deflationary event.

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straycatuk
I think at that time it would have been disasterous. If Lennon had lived I think they would have reformed as a touring band with extra musicians around the time the Stones started the "Vegas"years................................................................................Although they may have ended up like ELO !

I think any reunion (who really thinks Anthology counts?) would have damaged their legacy which,by any standard is an amazing body of work IMHO.

scuk

Disastrous how? You mean the quality of their performance? Or the way in which the public would have experienced it? I think with enough rehearsals, they could have delivered a perfectly competent performance, probably no better or worse than your average Beatles tribute band, but I think it would have been a hugely anti-climatic event that, while greatly anticipated, would have been a terrible letdown, similar to the 1974 Evel Knievel Snake River Canyon Jump. Hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of people, paying $30 apiece to pack into movie theatres to watch it on giant-screen closed circuit TV, with bad picture quality and inaudible sound, and then, 20 minutes later, saying "So that's it, huh? THAT'S what the world's been waiting for?" And can you imagine the chaos at any theatre where there was a power outage or some sort of technical snafu that prevented the concert from being shown. Enraged fans would have trashed the place.

Would it have damaged their legacy? Yes, the MOMENT they began to play, their mystique would have instantaneously evaporated into thin air. But for people like me (I was 17 in '76, old enough to have bought Beatles records when they were still making them, but too young to have seen them), I think it still would have been a lot of fun.

I don't agree that there EVER would have been a reunion TOUR. John and George would never have gone on the road. But a one-off? That is something I could see them agreeing to. Even then, they would have had to have been dragged into it, kicking and screaming.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-04-03 00:56 by tatters.

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Happy24

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tatters

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Happy24
Well for that money who would not consider it? I have never heard about it, it is nice to speculate.

I can imagine that in 1976 the relationships were still really bad, but okay, we all work to earn money. We often work with people we don't like, that is normal. People who do big business with a lot of money involved are not usually friends, more likely regular enemies. That is all normal, so when 4 people who are maybe not the best friends at the moment get such an offer, I find it logical to consider it. I would :-) Should they have done it? If, then only for the money, so I am happy they didn't do it, but I wouldn't blame them if they did.

Bernstein, in his pitch to the Beatles, said it was perfectly okay with HIM if they gave all of their earnings from the concert to charity.

Well, if they did that concert and Bernstain payed them for that, then what would be the difference whether it would or would not be okay with HIM if THEY gave the money to the charity? :-) I can't see how should that help the Beatles to decide. They could of course use it for charity just like for anything else, that would not be up to Bernstein. Or was it menat that Bernstein's earning would go as well? But how would he earn anything after paying that amount of money to the Beatles?

I think Bernstein used the charity angle because he thought that it might be the best chance of success; the best way of getting them to do it; the most likely way of getting the ball rolling. Bernstein didn't spell it out for them, but it was clearly implied that if they wanted to do it for the money, that was fine, but if they didn't want to appear to be doing it solely out of greed, they could always get around that by doing it for charity. I wish someone could post a link to the actual text of Bernstein's ad. I remember it as being quite syrupy and full of shit. He stopped just short of telling the Beatles that their reunion, and only their reunion, could save the world.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-04-03 01:00 by tatters.

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Rochdale3
And then Lorne Michaels offered them $3000.00 (as a joke) to appear on Saturday Night Live because that's all NBC could afford. And they almost did it. That would have been much cooler. George then did SNL a little later and (as a joke, again) demanded the entire $3000.00 when Lorne only gave him 25%. Great stuff!

Actually, the Lorne Michaels offer came FIRST, in April 1976. Wings toured America in May and June, Bernstein's ad appeared in the NY Times in September, and Harrison appeared on SNL in November.

I'll never forget the full page ad that appeared in The Times in March of that year. All it said was

WELCOME WINGS

Joe English
Denny Laine
Linda McCartney
Paul McCartney
Jimmy McCulloch


That's all it said. No dates. No venues. No ticket information. With the names just like that. In alphabetical order. The dates were announced a few days later (two shows at MSG and one at Nassau Coliseum) , and tickets went on sale two weeks after that.

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straycatuk
I think at that time it would have been disasterous. ........Although they may have ended up like ELO !

scuk

haven't read the entire thread but....i think Lennon himself was quoted (late '70s) as saying
if the Beatles were still together (making music) "we'd probably sound like ELO" (paraphrasing)

i've always remembered that....which is why i found it interesting that Jeff Lynn always worked with
George Harrison.


IORR............but I like it!

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sweet neo con

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straycatuk
I think at that time it would have been disasterous. ........Although they may have ended up like ELO !

scuk

haven't read the entire thread but....i think Lennon himself was quoted (late '70s) as saying
if the Beatles were still together (making music) "we'd probably sound like ELO" (paraphrasing)

i've always remembered that....which is why i found it interesting that Jeff Lynn always worked with
George Harrison.

He meant it as a compliment to ELO. ELO was still making good music at the time Lennon said that (mid-70s, I think), but he was referring to earlier ELO music, stuff like "Showdown", or "Can't Get It Out Of My Head". That's the ELO John thought the Beatles would have sounded like.

To bring another perspective to this discussion, I find it even more interesting the revelation by May Pang (in a book she just released last year if I'm recalling correctly) that John mentioned to her(back then when they were together) that he was considering giving the guys a call to get back together in 1974 in Syracuse to get some rehearsals going in secret and see if they could get things going again. I learned this over at another forum I frequent.

Here's a slightly longer version of the first Lorne Michaels offer with a few people commenting on it, including Lorne (present day):

[www.beatleslane.com]



And here's a transcript (even funnier) of his second offer a month later (NBC has sweetened the pot by $200.00):

[snltranscripts.jt.org]



Finally, a bit more info from Neil Innes' website:

[www.neilinnes.org]

Thank GOD! How boring do ya'all think that would be. Geesh!

oh poor Meekscary.

I was WONDERING when he was gonna chime in. Guess he'd been sleepin' on the job.

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HalfNanker

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Milan

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lamemodem2
I agree with Rochdale3, I think it would have been cool if John and Paul appeared on SNL. I thought I read somewhere that Paul and John were in NYC watching that as it happened and considered running down to 30 Rock and doing something. I think that would have been great.

Yup, Lennon himself mentioned it in an 1980 interview (book -- David Sheff: "last interview" ), he said they were both too lazy to leave John's apartment and grab a cab, but it was a cool idea.

Edit: also, from the description box of the vid posted above: "Paul McCartney has commented in interviews that he and John Lennon were watching the SNL broadcast from Lennon's apartment in the Dakota on the night when Michaels made his offer for the Beatles to reunite. McCartney reported that he and Lennon briefly toyed with the idea of going down to the NBC studios and taking Michaels up on the offer."

was it the night of the offer, or the night George Harrison was there. I thought it might have been the latter, which would have virtually been a reunion.

It was the night of the offer, April 24, 1976. The very next day, John and Paul saw one another for what turned out to be the final time.

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72stones
To bring another perspective to this discussion, I find it even more interesting the revelation by May Pang (in a book she just released last year if I'm recalling correctly) that John mentioned to her(back then when they were together) that he was considering giving the guys a call to get back together in 1974 in Syracuse to get some rehearsals going in secret and see if they could get things going again. I learned this over at another forum I frequent.

John did more socializing with the other Beatles during the lost weekend of 1974 than at any other time following their breakup. In fact, one of the very LAST times John and George got together was when John and May Pang attended George's concert at the Nassau Coliseum on Dec. 15, 1974, the only time John ever went to see a fellow ex-Beatle perform live.

Good stuff here! Sure to bring out more of meekscary's interesting observations about the Fab Four..

So tatters great stuff man. Thanks!

Lots of great posts here. And it is so interesting peeling back the layers of history to get that snap shot of what was likely happening. May Pang is a great source, she was Lennon's lover during a very interesting time in his life where it seemed he was becoming more and more nostalgic, yet also more confused, and emotional. I believe your right tatters about that being the last time Lennon saw Harrison before Lennon's death. And he was seeing a lot of Paul and Linda, which continued into his house husband days. Witness the Toot and a Snort boot with Macca and Lennon leading a party singalong in the studio, and doing coke with Stevie Wonder. There was also Lennon's testimony in a closed court session on why Beatlemania was infringing on The Beatles trademark, and at that boys were planning on reforming for the documentary The Long and Winding Road.
I think the night Paul and Lennon were together watching Saturday Night Live, they would have done it, but Lennon, while very strong, was also quite insecure about himself, and I am sure they were smoking down and Lennon would have put the cabash on it.
Also, in an interesting interview with Jack Douglas. Douglas discusses how McCartney tried to get through to Lennon during the recording of Double Fantasy. Unfortunately, Yoko intercepted this call and hung up on Paul saying Lennon was busy. Douglas also hauntingly says Lennon told him something the night of his death, and that he will never repeat it. What did Lennon tell him? The Beatles were getting back together, he saw his own death, he was divorcing Yoko? One of those haunting unknowns of history, that won't be unlocked unless Douglas spills the beans.
Well it is fun to wonder and make conjecture, but the historical fact is they never did get together. And it seems almost cosmic that The Beatles were bigger than the men in The Beatles and even they could not create their own history. And in many ways history was the true force behind The Beatles in preserving their legacy and freezing their legend in the minds of the world intact and preserved.
I, for one, think a reunion would have been like everything they have touched. Brilliant. I also wonder if there is hidden in the deep recesses of their archives a final performance with the four of them, just reliving their passion and remembering their days in Hamburg, and agreeing it was theirs, the one treasure they did not have to share with the world. One can wonder.

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straycatuk
I think at that time it would have been disasterous. If Lennon had lived I think they would have reformed as a touring band with extra musicians around the time the Stones started the "Vegas"years................................................................................Although they may have ended up like ELO !

I think any reunion (who really thinks Anthology counts?) would have damaged their legacy which,by any standard is an amazing body of work IMHO.

scuk

I think George Harrison would have always said no to a reunion. He was always more contsant than Lennon.