Hi all

Read Sam's interview and check out an excerpt from his book You Can't Always Get What You Want
Spinner.ca interview

Pretty interesting. He seems clever and level headed.
Thanks for postin'.

Very intersting. I'll bet it's a good read.

"Take all the pain...It's yours anyway"

yes very interestng thnx for the link.... !

do think sam's off sayin' stones were singled out unfairly from all those frisco bands he mentioned.....

stones only ones who made snuff film and threw gas on a tiny match to have this scandolous sexy hype and centering the film suspensfully on the knifing death....

black guy w a gun white chick motorcycle thing... in '69????...sell sell sell
...to seem sftd was playing and all kinds of whoooooooo whooooo dark forces in play...like black sabbaths publicity peeps or something but w more credibility cause wenner jumped on the cross promotion band wagon.....etc... altamont famous cause the stones wanted press and mystiqe for gimme shelter film...sum of the best docu footage and live footage of the band ever....but a lot of the other stuff i'm talkin' bout too.... imo.

real truth my ass. just sayin'

Sam Cutler's book is a good read.

One thing I disagree with him here (on this article) is the statement about it wasn't the Rolling Stones free concert but a collective free concert made up of all the bands.

C'mon, the Stones put the statement out there that they would play free in San francisco, I doubt there would have been an Altamont concert without the Stones !
Once the Stones said that comment they then threw the word out to get other bands on the bill - with the help of the Grateful Dead.

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Beelyboy
yes very interestng thnx for the link.... !

do think sam's off sayin' stones were singled out unfairly from all those frisco bands he mentioned.....

stones only ones who made snuff film and threw gas on a tiny match to have this scandolous sexy hype and centering the film suspensfully on the knifing death....

black guy w a gun white chick motorcycle thing... in '69????...sell sell sell
...to seem sftd was playing and all kinds of whoooooooo whooooo dark forces in play...like black sabbaths publicity peeps or something but w more credibility cause wenner jumped on the cross promotion band wagon.....etc... altamont famous cause the stones wanted press and mystiqe for gimme shelter film...sum of the best docu footage and live footage of the band ever....but a lot of the other stuff i'm talkin' bout too.... imo.

real truth my ass. just sayin'

I see your point but the Stones didn't set out to record a snuff movie. Yes, I agree that a black man/white woman may have outraged conservative types back then but that wasn't a staged appearance (afaik), although the timing couldn't have been better.

A motorcycle caught fire during Sympathy, the stabbing took place during Under My Thumb. The whole satanic thing was hype and nonsense right from the start.

The Stones may have come up with the idea for Altamont and attracted most of the audience, but I'm guessing that the Frisco bands had a lot to do with organizing the actual event -- building the stage, hiring the Angels, etc.

In the interest of civility, which seems to be lacking from today's discussions around the world.. I will reply to you without #$%^&* and hope that it helps us have discussions of facts as opposed to theories..

It took me over 3 months to get the Stones (Mick) to agree to include the footage that showed the murder or self defense (as there was the gun). It was either include the footage or pay the Maysles' for their time and costs..We didn't have the money and we felt there was a message here, which has been proven right..this was not only a Rolling Stones concert film, this was a social commentary of the time.

As to your comment "altamont famous cause the stones wanted press and mystiqe for gimme shelter film"--- please show me any press the Stones did to promote the film. They wished it never happened.

and that's the truth!

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Beelyboy


stones only ones who made snuff film and threw gas on a tiny match to have this scandolous sexy hype and centering the film suspensfully on the knifing death....

black guy w a gun white chick motorcycle thing... in '69????...sell sell sell
...to seem sftd was playing and all kinds of whoooooooo whooooo dark forces in play...like black sabbaths publicity peeps or something but w more credibility cause wenner jumped on the cross promotion band wagon.....etc... altamont famous cause the stones wanted press and mystiqe for gimme shelter film...sum of the best docu footage and live footage of the band ever....but a lot of the other stuff i'm talkin' bout too.... imo.

real truth my ass. just sayin'

Quote
bmuseed
In the interest of civility, which seems to be lacking from today's discussions around the world.. I will reply to you without #$%^&* and hope that it helps us have discussions of facts as opposed to theories..

It took me over 3 months to get the Stones (Mick) to agree to include the footage that showed the murder or self defense (as there was the gun). It was either include the footage or pay the Maysles' for their time and costs..We didn't have the money and we felt there was a message here, which has been proven right..this was not only a Rolling Stones concert film, this was a social commentary of the time.

As to your comment "altamont famous cause the stones wanted press and mystiqe for gimme shelter film"--- please show me any press the Stones did to promote the film. They wished it never happened.

and that's the truth!

Quote
Beelyboy


stones only ones who made snuff film and threw gas on a tiny match to have this scandolous sexy hype and centering the film suspensfully on the knifing death....

black guy w a gun white chick motorcycle thing... in '69????...sell sell sell
...to seem sftd was playing and all kinds of whoooooooo whooooo dark forces in play...like black sabbaths publicity peeps or something but w more credibility cause wenner jumped on the cross promotion band wagon.....etc... altamont famous cause the stones wanted press and mystiqe for gimme shelter film...sum of the best docu footage and live footage of the band ever....but a lot of the other stuff i'm talkin' bout too.... imo.

real truth my ass. just sayin'

that should end the discussion. someone in the band might have been killed at that 'concert'

thanks for the post

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Father Ted

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Beelyboy
yes very interestng thnx for the link.... !

do think sam's off sayin' stones were singled out unfairly from all those frisco bands he mentioned.....

stones only ones who made snuff film and threw gas on a tiny match to have this scandolous sexy hype and centering the film suspensfully on the knifing death....

black guy w a gun white chick motorcycle thing... in '69????...sell sell sell
...to seem sftd was playing and all kinds of whoooooooo whooooo dark forces in play...like black sabbaths publicity peeps or something but w more credibility cause wenner jumped on the cross promotion band wagon.....etc... altamont famous cause the stones wanted press and mystiqe for gimme shelter film...sum of the best docu footage and live footage of the band ever....but a lot of the other stuff i'm talkin' bout too.... imo.

real truth my ass. just sayin'

I see your point but the Stones didn't set out to record a snuff movie. Yes, I agree that a black man/white woman may have outraged conservative types back then but that wasn't a staged appearance (afaik), although the timing couldn't have been better.

i'm sure they didn't "set out" to record a snuff movie. totally w you.
but when it came to editing and marketing...can't convince me that a cat astute as mick didn't know, approve, sanction and promote the uber sensationalistic 'paint it black you devil" ambiance....remember on ya=ya's that audience woman who shouted that phrase was edited in purposefully on ya-ya's to coincide with sftd ya yas.

oooh booga booga

You gotta point there as the "paint it black you devil" originally came from before the Stones took the stage.

n the book, you mention that you saved Jerry Garcia's life twice. Can you talk about that?

Sam CutlerNo, because that's personal. Listen, when you're a tour manager, you can discover things about people that really should never see the light of day. They're private. So I wouldn't demean Jerry's memory by talking about these things in an interview or in a book -- I wouldn't even talk about it with my friends. I hold his memory dear and sacred, and that's one of my ways of honoring him.




This shows what type of guy Sam is. I respect him for his integrity, not to many people have that this day and age.

I have a Grateful Dead bootleg, I can't remember the date as I type this, but Sam was managing The Dead and something happens at the place of show, Sam gets on stage and says.... "There isn't going to be any music until the cops get off the stage."

i get too emotional about this. i Do think it's important to be civil and meant no personal attack nor to be snide about my position....
it opens more questions than any easy answer....
i've frankly been offended by altamont hype since the rs editors wanted a page six story on this...fan killed at concert.... but jan, according to these editors, i have quoted them by name and direct quote here but do not remember all the specific names and stories previously researched...
jan they say knew hot to throw the crowd 'fresh meat' and watch the glorious response in readership.... from a marketing point he was right. from the point of a news reporter or deep music lover respectful of the cultures that grew these incredible artsts..it was a cheap $hot imo and a goldmine. peeps sellin' things no crime. but dosen't mean it anywhere near factual reportable substantiated proof of any theory at all. 'facts' tho they be....



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-31 03:38 by Beelyboy.

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duke richardson

Quote
bmuseed
In the interest of civility, which seems to be lacking from today's discussions around the world.. I will reply to you without #$%^&* and hope that it helps us have discussions of facts as opposed to theories..

It took me over 3 months to get the Stones (Mick) to agree to include the footage that showed the murder or self defense (as there was the gun). It was either include the footage or pay the Maysles' for their time and costs..We didn't have the money and we felt there was a message here, which has been proven right..this was not only a Rolling Stones concert film, this was a social commentary of the time.

As to your comment "altamont famous cause the stones wanted press and mystiqe for gimme shelter film"--- please show me any press the Stones did to promote the film. They wished it never happened.

and that's the truth!

Quote
Beelyboy


stones only ones who made snuff film and threw gas on a tiny match to have this scandolous sexy hype and centering the film suspensfully on the knifing death....

black guy w a gun white chick motorcycle thing... in '69????...sell sell sell
...to seem sftd was playing and all kinds of whoooooooo whooooo dark forces in play...like black sabbaths publicity peeps or something but w more credibility cause wenner jumped on the cross promotion band wagon.....etc... altamont famous cause the stones wanted press and mystiqe for gimme shelter film...sum of the best docu footage and live footage of the band ever....but a lot of the other stuff i'm talkin' bout too.... imo.

real truth my ass. just sayin'

that should end the discussion. someone in the band might have been killed at that 'concert'

They all could have been killed if it had gone on long enough. A bunch of bikers wacked out on meth and booze? All it would have taken is for Jagger or somebody to say something the Angels didn't like into the microphone.

so why u guys hire them?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-31 03:16 by Beelyboy.

because the locals recommended it. they trusted people who lived around there. the whole thing is such a mess in hindsight so easy to criticize. but I don't think MJ and Ron Schneider wanted to somehow profit from it. I think they had an extraordinary series of events captured on film and they knew it and they felt it should be shown. Sure the Stones added in the 'paint it black you devils' to heighten the effect of SFTD on Ya Yas. so what, but Gimme Shelter isn't the same thing, do you really think it is?
I think the Stones were as afraid as they've ever been, at a gig, what a time to have to play good time rock and roll.

NO ONE WANTED OR CONCEIVED ANTICIPATED CONSTRUCTED OR ENCOURAGED ANY HORRIFING TRAGEDY IN FRONT OF THE STAGE...! AND NO ONE WANTED TO SEE IT HAPPEN !!! NO ONE WANTED TO PROFIT FROM ANY KIND OF UNTHINKABLE TRAGEDY.... ESPECIALLY KEITH, WHO WAS VISIBLY UPSET, AND MICK, WHO WAS SHOCKED AND TRYING TO FIGGER OUT WATTUP AND COOL THINGS OUT. I HAVE ZERO CRITIQUE OF WAY STONES HANDLE THEMSELVES ON STAGE EXCEPT TO SAY AWESOME BABY....

i am burned from endless hype.

this tour historic for so many reasons other than editing the concert to be a suspenseful harbinger of the END of cultural positvity in ALL contemp arts politics etc...godard was playing loose w a lot of this is his stones film...

stones always fascinating to me and well loved. this movie bad editing choices. free for all books about the end of the world. straw man low brow endless crap becoming reality, in the same way a cheesy actor plays johnny cash or jim morrison and that fiction becomes accepted parameters of the contribution of unique men (and women) to countless suceeding generations....

ron says three momths of persuasion before mick would consider this route. telling that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-31 03:55 by Beelyboy.

Yeah, akin to the perfect storm, every thing bad that could happen happened in perfect syncronicity to create such a horrific event. Beely and can understand where you are coming from, but when I watch Gimmie Shelter I don't get the impression that Mick and the Stones in general wanted to hype the murder to sell something. Actually, I think in their hearts they felt guilty about what happened and tried to use the documentary to show the lead up to the perfect storm. But it does leave a bad taste in the mind of how they left Sam Cutler out to dry and wouldn't even pick up the phone when he called. I have said it before, as men with honor the Stones have a pretty patchy history. You can love the music but can be dissapointed by the men behind it...

The Stones had no say in the final cut of the movie. And Stanley Booth insists no one in the Stones ever hired the Angels to do anything, Whether he's right or not, I don't know, but that's what he says.

the Angels were "invited" to the free concert for $500 worth of beer. At other festivals in the Frisco area the Angels would go the concert and protect the equipment of the bands & the PA system. I dare say this was a requirement (although no-one has said it) for their $500 worth of beer.

I would be interested to hear from Ron to hear if Mick/Keith had knowledge that Sam was dealing with the Angels or told Sam to get the Angels to look after the equipment & stage.

Looking at pictures & the movie it seems the Angels did act as bodyguards for the band (even though this has been denied) - keeping people away from their tent (when they were tuning the guitars) before the show, and providing the motorcycle path so they could get to the stage. Also their presence on the stage basically provided a barrier so the crowd wouldn't easily jump on the stage.

"because the locals recommended it"

Didn't the Stones themselves demand the Angels after the great job the Brit ones had done at Hyde Park? MJ didn't know the California psychopaths weren't as mellow...

First of all... on the 25th of April at 6PM PST you will be able to ask Sam, yourselves. We will be doing a live webcam Skype chat from LA. I'll put up a link to the info page soon. If you want to participate, there will be an email address that you send your Skype name to..

In reply: the first we learned of 'Angels' was when we got backstage and into the trailer or motor home. When I went to get on the stage--there were no steps and someone would give you a hand up--a Hell's Angel gave me his hand to get me on the stage and as he was helping lift me I noticed that he had his other hand in a fist and was about to pull me up and punch me.. My security guy called out and stopped him, which resulted in another story, too long to detail now.
Recall I have said that the night before was beautiful so we were stunned to find what we found.

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Eleanor Rigby
the Angels were "invited" to the free concert for $500 worth of beer. At other festivals in the Frisco area the Angels would go the concert and protect the equipment of the bands & the PA system. I dare say this was a requirement (although no-one has said it) for their $500 worth of beer.

I would be interested to hear from Ron to hear if Mick/Keith had knowledge that Sam was dealing with the Angels or told Sam to get the Angels to look after the equipment & stage.

Looking at pictures & the movie it seems the Angels did act as bodyguards for the band (even though this has been denied) - keeping people away from their tent (when they were tuning the guitars) before the show, and providing the motorcycle path so they could get to the stage. Also their presence on the stage basically provided a barrier so the crowd wouldn't easily jump on the stage.

I would love to hear about more of the Altamont fiasco from you Ron...don't worry, I don't think it will bore anyone!

so do you think the fact that Mick/Keith & the Stones left Sam Cutler alone in the US while the rest of the band split the next day to England & other parts of the world was because of the fact Sam had the Angels come to Altamont? They pretty much left him to defend himself (and the band) to everyone in Frisco the next day...

I helped start a film school at the University of Vermont and I had Albert Maysles speak with the class after a screening of GIMME SHELTER. Up until then, we watched the teachers teach the students to get involved in their documentaries, make social action, get emotions on film and then Albert gave his definition of a documentary. He said that the camera should document what happens and the cameraman should only record and not be part of the film, (His brother David used to come to me after the film was out and complain that people now knew them for the violence of Altamont in GIMME SHELTER as opposed to being famous because of 'SALESMAN' and 'GREY GARDENS', which he preferred). PS..the teachers ran to gather the students up and give the reason for their definition of documentary...
Bottom line is what you see is what happened--this was REAL reality as opposed to most of the scripted realities around now...and not including things, for what ever reason, would be a cop out.
We never hyped this film, it spoke for itself and the problem lies with society or lack of it...

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Beelyboy
NO ONE WANTED OR CONCEIVED ANTICIPATED CONSTRUCTED OR ENCOURAGED ANY HORRIFING TRAGEDY IN FRONT OF THE STAGE...! AND NO ONE WANTED TO SEE IT HAPPEN !!! NO ONE WANTED TO PROFIT FROM ANY KIND OF UNTHINKABLE TRAGEDY.... ESPECIALLY KEITH, WHO WAS VISIBLY UPSET, AND MICK, WHO WAS SHOCKED AND TRYING TO FIGGER OUT WATTUP AND COOL THINGS OUT. I HAVE ZERO CRITIQUE OF WAY STONES HANDLE THEMSELVES ON STAGE EXCEPT TO SAY AWESOME BABY....

i am burned from endless hype.

this tour historic for so many reasons other than editing the concert to be a suspenseful harbinger of the END of cultural positvity in ALL contemp arts politics etc...godard was playing loose w a lot of this is his stones film...

stones always fascinating to me and well loved. this movie bad editing choices. free for all books about the end of the world. straw man low brow endless crap becoming reality, in the same way a cheesy actor plays johnny cash or jim morrison and that fiction becomes accepted parameters of the contribution of unique men (and women) to countless suceeding generations....

ron says three momths of persuasion before mick would consider this route. telling that.

I don't think that at all. If I recall, the Stones were already booked to leave as they were preparing the European Tour and they had no intention of hanging around the US.
I received Sam's telegram on the 10th of December..I probably forwarded it to the Stones office (I don't remember and was surprised to find the telegram that I gave him for his book)as I had no authority to pay him. The problem with the Angels was supposedly resolved when we delivered the film footage showing that the 'Angel' acted in self defense. They turned in the gun at the same time.
No one from the Stones side at any time blamed Sam ! I kept getting rumors about Sam... he's in Texas on a ranch, he's hiding out somewhere..this was a time before cell phones, email and IM...

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Eleanor Rigby
I would love to hear about more of the Altamont fiasco from you Ron...don't worry, I don't think it will bore anyone!

so do you think the fact that Mick/Keith & the Stones left Sam Cutler alone in the US while the rest of the band split the next day to England & other parts of the world was because of the fact Sam had the Angels come to Altamont? They pretty much left him to defend himself (and the band) to everyone in Frisco the next day...

[www.imdb.com]

interesting the way it was marketed from the start EXACTLY as i've stated in this thread and many others here...
the hook (BACK in '70 when released)

Tagline:
The music that thrilled the world ... and the killing that stunned it!

booga booga... don't need the definition of documentary cheezus h. keeresstie

like there was no EDITOR on the film, or no EDITING process or MARKETING angle or process... man, just ridick... u sellin' promoting sam's book, hey it looks interestingk, he's part of the history....but... that's his hook to a book deal too. and to getting it promoted...
ok no prob but let's stay grounded in the business of this ongoing process...
w a leetle perspective, no?

anybody can google around almost anywere on the web for reviews, wiki accounts whatever... for the truth of exactly what the film is known for, promoted, featured...the last dark shots of the garbage and the end of the world ambiance...
cut me a huge furrricking break... thank you.

it was also promoted as "MORE THAN A HORROR FILM"
revisionist history for personal gain, notoriety or whatever is gonna be checked by cultural historians... more than a horror film... jessssusssss.
now it's all, gosh we didn't know nothin' we didn't do nothin''
sam himself talked about making a deal with the angels to guard the generators, but then quickly COVERED as best he could, with 'that was ALL they were supposed to do yadda yaadddda deee daaaa"
whooo

how about concert footage maysles brothers. document that motherfrickerzzzzzz.
blessings to all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-04-06 00:23 by Beelyboy.

Beelyboy--just like I can't stop you from your opinion, we can't stop people from their hype.. as far as I and the Stones were concerned..we did not hype the film. the PR people via their profession, do. The marketing is done by the film distributor. Prior to Altamont as was the habit..the Angels guarded the generators for the free concerts.. this was not just made up but was the truth that no one wanted to pay attention to as the 'hype' of the urban legend...'they were hired as security' had a ring to it.... Like I said..you can ask Sam yourself--oh wait, we might be hyping the book...

i have no prob w anybody hyping or promoting stones related projects here at all. was just saying my say and grateful for a forum on which to do so....did the best i could to express my views...

u called 'real truth' and i've, successfully, questioned that responsibly. meaning to add to the soup, not counter in any way your personal contributions and historic working relationship with the band at their finest....

....the lead hype is altamont. not to dismiss hype per se...it's how we get to know about stuff we can enjoy.....

....so here we are. you don't want
me to talk to sam on air...and i don't mean to challenge anybody on air or elsewhere but i like iorr and engage in, imho, adding an opinion not popular but may have merit to some...in perspective...

ok, sigh, then who were the pr firm for the distributor? who was the distdributor?
it could on and on endlessly, ...not meaning to indict any particular person but to see this as a wondrous important tour and any footage of performance not released should be asap... in some way all the huzzah takes away from the real stones achievement, as well as distort the historical reality in context...

it was released internationally in dozens of countries so let's get to the real truth w/out revisionist history as part of the discussion. why not? no harm intended!!
this took massive coordination and a clear marketing angle for press... and public....

mick so aloof, unconcerned, doofus, not the astute, uber bright guy we've come to know and love??? he had zero concern zero say zero control over the nasty way it was presesented... without a word of protest? little mickster just powerless and uninformed etc...i ain't the culture poleece but i was so glad for wonderful concert and behind stage footage in this revelatory stones film and live showss!!!! gimme gimme gimmme more...

all those years with andrew and mick learns nothing??
andrew and brian epstein working together and mick, of all people, learns nothing?
intellectually and otherwise he must've been ok with it... and i'm ok with that...but i just want to state the showbiz angle of this marketing wise and otherwise in context....? not to arouse anger and stuff... tho sometimes i am way too emo about a point...me???? so very very far from being super fan with completeist knowledge and all... just LIVED thru it, loved the music... was culturally, in tiny way, an observer to the great musical events of the time...some of em anyway....


what happened to your three months of 'pestering' mick to angle it this way or that before he approved??? this very interesting line of discussion...done diplomatically of course...

really, the real truth re: mick's concerns, feelings etc...would be UBER gift. it was u and him... so u both know. wattup?

michael phillip jagger, in his very first International film release (excluding the variety show Ta.m.i. and one plus one w sftd studio footage) a major international motion picture.... they're very FIRST... and had no knowledge no say etc... pete t. had just written about a blind deaf and dumb boy but i never thought it was mick.... "the band had no money" and was totally unconcerned about marketing this film... sigh ....
imo.

not the real truth in that regard. i'd like to hear sam's stories tho. not against his publishing a book for sale for godsake,,,,or having tie in radio interview live with fans etc....hey thass a good thing!!!!

Did you ever see 'Texas Chain Saw Massacre'? Horrible, wasn't
it? You know people ask me: it is really true where you live
in Texas, it is really true what they do around there, people?
I say, "yeah everytime I drive through the crossroads I get
scared there's a bloke running around with a @#$%& chain
saw. Oh oh no, gonna, oh no. Don't saw off me leg, don't saw
off me arm." When I get to the movies, you know I'd like to
see something more romantic, you know. Like 'An Officer and a
Gentleman' or something. Something you can take the wife to,
you know what I mean?

beelyboy...Think About it



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2010-04-07 10:17 by Beelyboy.