The Dirty Work thread BTW is not "semi-annual", it comes up about every month, because 1) so many people like it 2) so many people hate it.

Let's dispense with the track-by-track (Yes, even DW afficandos admit BTZ sucks)

The real heart of the matter is "Hold Back". So much hate here!

I don't understand. In fact, I consider it a (let's say) second-tier Stones classic. That is, not quite JJF or BS or Satisfaction-level, but definitely IORR, or TD, or SMU-level. And certainly above YGMR, or even SFTD (heresay, I know). I feel this way because:

1. The guitars rock hard. The break (solo) is in MHO the best the "weavers" ever accomplished. Very simple, yet screaming kinda solo. This, my friends, is analog in all its glory, real tube-y guitar. RW, I think but whomever, very well done.

2. The guitars rock hard. What great, tight, rhythm. Gotta be KR. Sort of an off-beat cadence, an upstroke riff. Like I say: tight!

3. I've heard many IORRers bitch about the drums. I can no believe! CW is beating the hell of his skins. A different, irregular beat, but Charlie is WAY IN THE POCKET imho. Driving the song, and who better????

4. Yes, MJ "spits" the lyrics out. Don't understand why so many people think this is a bad thing. I love that he actually sounds like he MEANS what he says. How many times has this happened since EOMS?? I'll take spitting any day!!

Allright flame away. You hate HB because.....

Hold Back is one of the worst Stones songs ever in my opinion I can not really even listen to it

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slew
Hold Back is one of the worst Stones songs ever in my opinion I can not really even listen to it

you're being kind - it's not even THAT good

I've always liked it too. Apparently that's incorrect.

awful

Great guitars, a terrific break, a good nasty rocker. I like it.

Jagger's vocals are t.e.r.r.i.b.l.e, imo- overafected, cold, pointless, completely unconvinsing. And what the hell are they 'talking' about?? What's the meaning, the message here!? ...It's a throwaway, in my book.

If I'm in an aggressive mood then Hold Back (and Fight) match up perfectly.

Otherwise, I'll skip 'em.

I like the guitars. The song is so so, imo.

It's a tuneless mess imo. Absolutely unlistenable - the rest of the lp is not much better
Some nice bass on Too Rude. Like the piano bit at the end. That's about it

Dirty Work shakes my tailfeather just fine, but this number ...
okay if someone else digs the track, good for them! because that's what it's for.
(but for me the words to this one are dead lame and the vocal delivery is merely monotonous)

from [www.timeisonourside.com] :
Ivan Neville, Aaron's son, is playing bass. That one was a track we'd put down almost at the end of the sessions
but never really considered, you know: Oh well, put that one on hold for another album.
But Charlie's drums were SO strong and the arrangement was developed so well that all we needed really
was to re-do the bass, because the sound wasn't up to par on it - we'd only done it as a kind of dub in Paris.
So when Ivan walked in one night, it was, Hey, Ivan, get out there.
- Keith Richards, 1985

Hard for me as well. It could have been so much more. But that booming 80's drum with no panache. And Mick just mails on his vocals. YOu can tell he just can't be bothered, and actually is almost disdainful that he has to be there. A shame.

I would bet that anyone here digs hard analog guitars and Jagger spitting some mean vocals - otherwise they wouldn't be here. But "Hold Back" isn't the one. It is one of the worst Stones songs ever - one of the very few I absolutely can't listen to. And that includes outtakes, jams and all.

ok, now that I'm no longer 13 years old, I don't like this cut quite as much as I did it when it came out, and I understand why it's near the bottom of the heap. The coda is pretty cool, though, and the main riff is interesting.

who does the guitar solo?

[Taking a deep breath] I decided never to comment on Hold Back again but
since it’s now got a thread of its own I feel I should defend an old friend.
When DW came out I was disappointed since it didn't live up to the expectations
I’d had of ‘Keith’s Album’. What did impress me, however, was the intensity of
some of the songs and some of Jagger’s performances — what you good people refer to as ‘barking’.
Hold Back is one of those songs, with a rawness that projects from the speakers
and hits you in the gut. The production may be tinny, the drums overblown and the lyrics
uneven but the song transcends those flaws: it’s absolutely authentic.
And Jagger's singing is unorthodox but fantastic.

The Dirty Work album had the ingredients to be a decent album the problem is Jagger wanted to end the Stones and was not into the album at all. Fight and Hold On are two of his worst vocal performances ever in my book. If someone likes them fine but the album does not work for me. I never listen to it except One Hit which I love.

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slew
The Dirty Work album had the ingredients to be a decent album the problem is Jagger wanted to end the Stones and was not into the album at all. Fight and Hold On are two of his worst vocal performances ever in my book. If someone likes them fine but the album does not work for me. I never listen to it except One Hit which I love.

life's too short and there's way too much great music out there to waste on crap like this album...and for those who like "hold back" it really makes one wonder what rock'n'roll they DON'T like....

horrible! the guitar break is a mess.

Yeah it's one of those stones songs you wouldn't play for your friends. I would describe Mick's vocals more like shouting rather than barking on that number.

Yes it's a mess.. but it's a beautiful mess and I like it. The guitars and Charlies drums are awesome...

>> The coda is pretty cool, though, and the main riff is interesting. <<

indeed, the guitars rock - that's true of the whole album.

>> who does the guitar solo? <<

The solo is Woody on overdub using an RCA amplifier from the '40s that is capable of running on AC or batteries.
- Alan Rogan, guitar technician, quoted on [www.timeisonourside.com]

The most awful pile of shite the Stones ever recorded. Not a single redeeming feature to it's name. One of the very few Stones songs that is absolutely unlistenable. In fact, its almost painful.

A great guitar sound does not a good song make (necessarily). To say it is in the league of Tumbling Dice is, shall we say, charitable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-06 20:27 by 71Tele.

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71Tele
A great guitar sound does not a good song make (necessarily).

true....and the shame of the whole album is that it's the last time both ron and keith had their full faculties...unfortunately the song writing muse of the glimmers had completely eluded them and we're left to wish and ponder what might have been....

Stonestod - Yeah you are right I'm trying to rationalize something that is a pitiful piece of music for a band like the Stones.

seems sometimes like it's hard for some fans to admit that something our fave band did actually blows...what they should realize is that it can be carthartic and allow you to "move on"

Dirty Work to me is so bad it makes Steel Wheels, VL, B2B and ABB sound like very good efforts and other than 3-4 gems on each they are not up to Stones standards either even though I think they are much better than Dirty Work

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slew
Dirty Work to me is so bad it makes Steel Wheels, VL, B2B and ABB sound like very good efforts and other than 3-4 gems on each they are not up to Stones standards either even though I think they are much better than Dirty Work

pretty much my take on it too - and i really have little interest in listening to any of these albums anymore...like i said, so much else out there that's so much better...and time is so short...

I do actually like Voodoo Lounge I can listen to most of that album.

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slew
I do actually like Voodoo Lounge I can listen to most of that album.

yeah, i wouldn't call it unlistenable, but it's waaay too long and filled with many forgettable songs...in some cases, just ones i wish i could forget....some of the material that didn't make the cut sounded more promising, too....

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with sssoul
>> The coda is pretty cool, though, and the main riff is interesting. <<

indeed, the guitars rock - that's true of the whole album.

>> who does the guitar solo? <<

The solo is Woody on overdub using an RCA amplifier from the '40s that is capable of running on AC or batteries.
- Alan Rogan, guitar technician, quoted on [www.timeisonourside.com]

thanks! from the "Hold Back" Toleration Society, Eastern US Chapter.