Tell Me :
Talk
Yes, it must be Keith trying some overdubs. Luckily this was not used on the finished version...
Is it in stereo or mono?
Basement News - June 1995
ROCKMAN
Vilhelm
Nordic Stones Vikings
Thanks for mention this mickijaggeroo, just signed in so I can check his collection ones in a while
__________________________
They are both in stereo on the original mispress LP.
There's also a fantastic version of Wild Horses circulating similar to the shelly Hot Rocks version but with added organ. Someone here said once it was a fake but I don't believe it.
This one is incomplete : It MUST have full color innersleeves showing LP covers, one of them is "Between the buttons" on top left.
classic matrix for the alternate pressing :
matrix side 1 XZAL 11015 Shelley STERLING 2 LH
matrix side 2 XZAL 11016 Shelley 11-18-71 STERLING 3 LH
matrix side 3 XZAL 11017 Shelley STERLING 3 LH
matrix side 4 XZAL 11018 Shelley 11-18-71 STERLING 2 LH
rarer matrix for the alternate pressing (only difference is on side 3)
matrix side 1 XZAL 11015 Shelley STERLING 2 LH
matrix side 2 XZAL 11016 Shelley 11-18-71 STERLING 3 LH
matrix side 3 SHELLEY XZAL 11017 3 STERLING 3 LH
matrix side 4 XZAL 11018 Shelley 11-18-71 STERLING 2 LH
I have editions with 12-3-71 and 12-6-71 on side 4, but they includes the regular versions of BS & WH.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-04 11:40 by Mister J.
Haha, good one. The alternate versions are much easier to get than the
innersleeves, or what?
The alternate versions are easy to get on a lot of bootleg CD's.
If you want to bid on an original Hot Rocks 2LP-set with alternate versions, the set must be complete. That's what I mean.
No problem, J, there are still some collectors trying to get official
stuff on official releases.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: January 3, 2010 17:11
Can anyone tell me more about the versions of these two tracks that were mistakenly issued on early pressings of Hot Rocks?
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
ghostryder13
()
Date: January 3, 2010 18:38
[eil.com]
Upon its initial pressing (Nov. 18, 1971), alternate versions of Brown Sugar and Wild Horses were included on the Hot Rocks master plate. These versions first appeared in the brilliant 1970 documentary Gimme Shelter. Since there was no clear reference to their origin on the album cover, sleeve or label, one must look at the trail-off vinyl (the smooth vinyl located nearest the disc label) and look for the word Shelley and the date 11-18-71.
The identifying mark is not easy to locate or read, but the mystery does not end if and when it is found. It seems that this "alternate pressing" was soon pulled in favor of a set which contained the single versions of Brown Sugar and Wild Horses. However, Shelley wasn't quite done, as the name reappeared for a short time afterwards with either a later date, or no date at all.
The songs themselves differ greatly from the known versions. Brown Sugar is a lot closer to the demo version heard in the hotel room sequence of the Gimme Shelter movie while Wild Horses has some noticeable vocal reverb.
The original Shelley 11-18-71, with the alternate takes, rarely surfaces and is among the top ten US collectables.
The labels are light blue and silver originals with boxed London logo and 'Stereophonic' text.
The all important word 'Shelley' has been hand scratched on all four sides with the date 11-18-71 scratched into the run out groove on side four. Also present in the run out groove of side four is the XZAL11018 matrix number and 'STERLING' has been machine stamped.
Upon its initial pressing (Nov. 18, 1971), alternate versions of Brown Sugar and Wild Horses were included on the Hot Rocks master plate. These versions first appeared in the brilliant 1970 documentary Gimme Shelter. Since there was no clear reference to their origin on the album cover, sleeve or label, one must look at the trail-off vinyl (the smooth vinyl located nearest the disc label) and look for the word Shelley and the date 11-18-71.
The identifying mark is not easy to locate or read, but the mystery does not end if and when it is found. It seems that this "alternate pressing" was soon pulled in favor of a set which contained the single versions of Brown Sugar and Wild Horses. However, Shelley wasn't quite done, as the name reappeared for a short time afterwards with either a later date, or no date at all.
The songs themselves differ greatly from the known versions. Brown Sugar is a lot closer to the demo version heard in the hotel room sequence of the Gimme Shelter movie while Wild Horses has some noticeable vocal reverb.
The original Shelley 11-18-71, with the alternate takes, rarely surfaces and is among the top ten US collectables.
The labels are light blue and silver originals with boxed London logo and 'Stereophonic' text.
The all important word 'Shelley' has been hand scratched on all four sides with the date 11-18-71 scratched into the run out groove on side four. Also present in the run out groove of side four is the XZAL11018 matrix number and 'STERLING' has been machine stamped.
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
rootsman
()
Date: January 3, 2010 18:51
I don´t have this LP, unfortunately - but I´ve downloaded the 2 tracks from (I think) The Black Box disc 4. They are in mono.
Brown Sugar is supposedly the same version as on A Shot Of Salvation (track 1). That one I have, but it is in stereo.
Are the tracks in stereo or mono on Hot Rocks?
And is Brown Sugar in the same mix on Hot Rocks/A Shot of Salvation or not?
Brown Sugar is supposedly the same version as on A Shot Of Salvation (track 1). That one I have, but it is in stereo.
Are the tracks in stereo or mono on Hot Rocks?
And is Brown Sugar in the same mix on Hot Rocks/A Shot of Salvation or not?
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: January 3, 2010 19:49
Anyone have a link where I can hear the tracks?
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
Deltics
()
Date: January 3, 2010 20:04
Email me 71Tele
"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"
"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: January 3, 2010 22:42
Just listened to alternate Brown Sugar (courtesy of Deltics). Same version as GS movie hotel room scene, but whole track. Fascinating. The slightly out of tune country licks that were not used on the official release sound like Keith. They're too simple to be MT.
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
rootsman
()
Date: January 3, 2010 23:11
Quote
71Tele
Just listened to alternate Brown Sugar (courtesy of Deltics). Same version as GS movie hotel room scene, but whole track. Fascinating. The slightly out of tune country licks that were not used on the official release sound like Keith. They're too simple to be MT.
Yes, it must be Keith trying some overdubs. Luckily this was not used on the finished version...
Is it in stereo or mono?
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: January 3, 2010 23:24
Basement News - June 1995
ROCKMAN
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
rootsman
()
Date: January 3, 2010 23:31
Nice one, Rockman!
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: January 3, 2010 23:33
.....pleasure roots ......
ROCKMAN
ROCKMAN
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: January 3, 2010 23:45
Excellent Rockman! I wonder how those versions ended up being mastered and pressed in the first place? THAT might make an interesting story.
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
Deltics
()
Date: January 4, 2010 00:23
John Rutherford is the much missed Stonesrelics, come back JR!
"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"
"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
mickijaggeroo
()
Date: January 4, 2010 00:41
He can be found here: [mickijaggeroo.proboards.com]Quote
Deltics
John Rutherford is the much missed Stonesrelics, come back JR!
Vilhelm
Nordic Stones Vikings
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: January 4, 2010 01:40
Quote
mickijaggerooHe can be found here: [mickijaggeroo.proboards.com]Quote
Deltics
John Rutherford is the much missed Stonesrelics, come back JR!
Thanks for mention this mickijaggeroo, just signed in so I can check his collection ones in a while
__________________________
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
Hillside Blues
()
Date: January 4, 2010 02:38
Quote
rootsmanQuote
71Tele
Just listened to alternate Brown Sugar (courtesy of Deltics). Same version as GS movie hotel room scene, but whole track. Fascinating. The slightly out of tune country licks that were not used on the official release sound like Keith. They're too simple to be MT.
Yes, it must be Keith trying some overdubs. Luckily this was not used on the finished version...
Is it in stereo or mono?
They are both in stereo on the original mispress LP.
There's also a fantastic version of Wild Horses circulating similar to the shelly Hot Rocks version but with added organ. Someone here said once it was a fake but I don't believe it.
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: January 4, 2010 03:13
Quote
Deltics
John Rutherford is the much missed Stonesrelics, come back JR!
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
thkbeercan
()
Date: January 4, 2010 04:28
A side by side listen to the hotel room seqeunce in GIMME SHELTER and the alternate"Hot Rocks" version of Brown Sugar will reveal that they are NOT identical.
The lead guitar in both is the same, as is the basic backing track. However, the "Hot Rocks" version appears to be a "sampler" tape of different drum tracks, punched in by an engineer at various times as the song progresses. At one point, two different (and quite off beat) drum tracks are playing simultaneously. The Stones surely never mixed the song this way...it is clearly some kind of 'working tape" done by engineers for mixing evaluation. And is not pleasant to listen to.
It IS the complete song, as opposed to the version in the film which features only the first minute and a half of the song.
The Wild Horses found on Hot Rocks is also slightly different from that found in the film. Again, it is a complete version of the song, as opposed to the edited one in the movie. But it appears to feature all the instrumentation as heard in the movie, albeit with a bit of echo on Jagger's voice. And the Jim Dickinson piano is mixed louder than what is heard in the film.
The version of Brown Sugar on "Shot of Salvation" is a close approximation of the GIMME SHELTER version, but has the drums mixed way down until after the first verse.
I have searched for years for a complete listenable mix of the movie version of BS and finally gave up and mixed one (or two ) of my own....
The lead guitar in both is the same, as is the basic backing track. However, the "Hot Rocks" version appears to be a "sampler" tape of different drum tracks, punched in by an engineer at various times as the song progresses. At one point, two different (and quite off beat) drum tracks are playing simultaneously. The Stones surely never mixed the song this way...it is clearly some kind of 'working tape" done by engineers for mixing evaluation. And is not pleasant to listen to.
It IS the complete song, as opposed to the version in the film which features only the first minute and a half of the song.
The Wild Horses found on Hot Rocks is also slightly different from that found in the film. Again, it is a complete version of the song, as opposed to the edited one in the movie. But it appears to feature all the instrumentation as heard in the movie, albeit with a bit of echo on Jagger's voice. And the Jim Dickinson piano is mixed louder than what is heard in the film.
The version of Brown Sugar on "Shot of Salvation" is a close approximation of the GIMME SHELTER version, but has the drums mixed way down until after the first verse.
I have searched for years for a complete listenable mix of the movie version of BS and finally gave up and mixed one (or two ) of my own....
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: January 4, 2010 06:01
Also no lead guitar on the alt Wild Horses.
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
rootsman
()
Date: January 4, 2010 13:10
Thanks for the info, Hillside Blues and thkbeercan!
The Wild Horses version with organ and pedal steel is great - never heard that it is a fake... (it´s on VGP´s Nasty Habits CD I think)
The Wild Horses version with organ and pedal steel is great - never heard that it is a fake... (it´s on VGP´s Nasty Habits CD I think)
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
Hillside Blues
()
Date: January 4, 2010 13:46
Yes, you're right. It's on Nasty Habits, although I've never heard the VGP version, only the original.
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
gimme_shelter
()
Date: January 4, 2010 14:20
The first to get it right. The versions on Hot Rocks aren't the same as in the GS movie.
Quote
thkbeercan
A side by side listen to the hotel room seqeunce in GIMME SHELTER and the alternate"Hot Rocks" version of Brown Sugar will reveal that they are NOT identical.
The lead guitar in both is the same, as is the basic backing track. However, the "Hot Rocks" version appears to be a "sampler" tape of different drum tracks, punched in by an engineer at various times as the song progresses. At one point, two different (and quite off beat) drum tracks are playing simultaneously. The Stones surely never mixed the song this way...it is clearly some kind of 'working tape" done by engineers for mixing evaluation. And is not pleasant to listen to.
It IS the complete song, as opposed to the version in the film which features only the first minute and a half of the song.
The Wild Horses found on Hot Rocks is also slightly different from that found in the film. Again, it is a complete version of the song, as opposed to the edited one in the movie. But it appears to feature all the instrumentation as heard in the movie, albeit with a bit of echo on Jagger's voice. And the Jim Dickinson piano is mixed louder than what is heard in the film.
The version of Brown Sugar on "Shot of Salvation" is a close approximation of the GIMME SHELTER version, but has the drums mixed way down until after the first verse.
I have searched for years for a complete listenable mix of the movie version of BS and finally gave up and mixed one (or two ) of my own....
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
drbryant
()
Date: January 4, 2010 17:48
What does this sell for when it does show up on auction?
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
TooTough
()
Date: January 27, 2010 18:32
So now I got mine! 
After being @#$%& one time on ebay,
this one IS the HR with the two alternate takes.
I just want to know: All four sides have "Shelley" (handwritten)
and STERLING (stamped).
But: Only sides 2 and (of course) 4 have the handwritten date 11-18-71.
Any insight? Are there more copies like this?
After being @#$%& one time on ebay,
this one IS the HR with the two alternate takes.
I just want to know: All four sides have "Shelley" (handwritten)
and STERLING (stamped).
But: Only sides 2 and (of course) 4 have the handwritten date 11-18-71.
Any insight? Are there more copies like this?
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
TooTough
()
Date: February 4, 2010 09:24
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
Mister J
()
Date: February 4, 2010 10:08
This one is incomplete : It MUST have full color innersleeves showing LP covers, one of them is "Between the buttons" on top left.
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
Mister J
()
Date: February 4, 2010 11:37
Quote
TooTough
So now I got mine!
After being @#$%& one time on ebay,
this one IS the HR with the two alternate takes.
I just want to know: All four sides have "Shelley" (handwritten)
and STERLING (stamped).
But: Only sides 2 and (of course) 4 have the handwritten date 11-18-71.
Any insight? Are there more copies like this?
classic matrix for the alternate pressing :
matrix side 1 XZAL 11015 Shelley STERLING 2 LH
matrix side 2 XZAL 11016 Shelley 11-18-71 STERLING 3 LH
matrix side 3 XZAL 11017 Shelley STERLING 3 LH
matrix side 4 XZAL 11018 Shelley 11-18-71 STERLING 2 LH
rarer matrix for the alternate pressing (only difference is on side 3)
matrix side 1 XZAL 11015 Shelley STERLING 2 LH
matrix side 2 XZAL 11016 Shelley 11-18-71 STERLING 3 LH
matrix side 3 SHELLEY XZAL 11017 3 STERLING 3 LH
matrix side 4 XZAL 11018 Shelley 11-18-71 STERLING 2 LH
I have editions with 12-3-71 and 12-6-71 on side 4, but they includes the regular versions of BS & WH.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-04 11:40 by Mister J.
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
TooTough
()
Date: February 4, 2010 14:58
Quote
Mister J
This one is incomplete : It MUST have full color innersleeves showing LP covers, one of them is "Between the buttons" on top left.
Haha, good one. The alternate versions are much easier to get than the
innersleeves, or what?
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
scottkeef
()
Date: February 4, 2010 16:22
These being included on the first copies of Hot Rocks was no mistake from what I heard. There was still some doubt at the time over Kleins rights to the masters due to the recently settled lawsuit is what I read(or maybe the availability of the tapes?) Maybe someone can elighten us. Also has anyone ever noticed that the original London release had the "guitar intro" Time Is On My Side" and the later "digitally remastered" red label London/Abkco uses the "organ intro" version?
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
Mister J
()
Date: February 4, 2010 17:01
Quote
TooToughQuote
Mister J
This one is incomplete : It MUST have full color innersleeves showing LP covers, one of them is "Between the buttons" on top left.
Haha, good one. The alternate versions are much easier to get than the
innersleeves, or what?
The alternate versions are easy to get on a lot of bootleg CD's.
If you want to bid on an original Hot Rocks 2LP-set with alternate versions, the set must be complete. That's what I mean.
Re: Alternate Brown Sugar and Wild Horses on Hot Rocks
Posted by:
TooTough
()
Date: February 4, 2010 17:17
Quote
Mister J
The alternate versions are easy to get on a lot of bootleg CD's.
If you want to bid on an original Hot Rocks 2LP-set with alternate
versions, the set must be complete. That's what I mean.
No problem, J, there are still some collectors trying to get official
stuff on official releases.
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