hey ronnie, as you see: thats for the kids. and even for them its @#$%& emberassing!
wake up before its really too late and leave that highway to hell......

He's a Rolling Stone for goodness sake!I can't understand why some folk are so outraged.Jesus has everybody become so prim and proper in their old age?I am not condoning his actions but why is everyone so shocked?
Of course they will still tour with Ronnie.It will probably be the best tonic for him.Lets roll !

Quote
hot stuff
True---But i will give Woodie the benefit of the doubt untill all the facts are in...We know a little bit more about what kind a person Ronnie is with 30 plus years of learning, hearing as well as his reputation from people who DO know and love him..He in not known for this type of behavior...

NO ONE has a right to hit another person...Man or Woman!!!

according to the article that BV posted in the NEWS section, there were witness reports:
[www.dailymail.co.uk]

Quote
Fan Since 1964

Quote
Green Lady


I'm staying out of the advice business, but I do hope this gets sorted out with minimum damage to all concerned.

"With minimum damage to all concerned"
Does that include the future of any upcoming activities by the Stones?
To me it seems like that there's been maximum damage done to the Stones.

This is really a bad outcome from a love story. And it won't just fly away like a leaf in the wind.

This is serious!

Did I say this was trivial and it would all blow away? I doubt it very much, and that's certainly not what I meant. What I did mean was that I hope things don't turn out as badly as they possibly could - and if they do, then the consequences could be devastating for both Ronnie and the band. Nobody wants that.

Sorry - I say stupid things when I'm worried.

i have to say that while I'm shocked by Ronnie's behaviour, I can just shake my head in disbelief when I read what some of you write here: a true rock n'roller, even midnight rambler is about violence and you like it!, it's her fault for provoking him, etc.
And then, to come up with Mick Taylor over and over again...guys, Taylor is 20 years absolutely and irreversibly past his ability to play with ANYONE on a regular basis for a longer period of time.

Quote
stargroover
He's a Rolling Stone for goodness sake! Lets roll !

Back in your cave!

He sadly, by his own admission, is not good with money, (or a guitar for that matter!), and he couldn't see that she is simply after his cash. Dump the tart go play with the Faces and make way for the return of Mick Taylor.....the only man who can help the Stones recapture the blues. Meantime sincere best wishes to Ronnie and I hope that he can keep the alcohol to a sensible level over The Festive Boozing Season.

Quote
Four Stone Walls

Quote
shortfatfanny

Quote
Four Stone Walls
What I find odd is how so many can moralise about Ron's reputed behaviour while I assume most of the same people love the Midnight Rambler, a song which it's hard not to associate with sexual violence - in fact which owes its existence to it.

Yeah,correct...and the Berlin Wall...AIDS...Sympathy For The Devil...Jack The Ripper...Gimme Shelter...?

Man,what the hell are you talking about ?
Too hard for you to devide fiction from reality ?

Midnight Rambler was based on the REAL case of the Boston Strangler - and Jagger got some of the lyrics directly from this case -

I know I'm being a bit lateral - but we do love the song largely because of its yrics - and the highpoint was Jagger's onstage enactment of a vicious belting of a woman btw -powerful esp with Keith's rhythm 'lashings' - kind of liberating - releasing (safely?) something that is probably in us all? -

Made me wonder.

OK - back to the Tabloid World ......

Again,I don´t know what your "kitchen psychologisms" got to do with Ronnie´s arrest.Sure everyone ( ok,many ) people are aware of the MR lyrics.

Strange enough Let It Bleed was released 40 years ago.One can ( over-) analyse
every ( rock ) song to death,in the end MR ,to stick to this example ,is fantastic music with lyrics creating a certain tension and atmosphere hardly been topped ( I think never ) live by any other artist.Brusselles 73 the peak.

Of course one could as well spin back the old Stones vinyls to search some
secret messages....wasn´t there even some cases ( Black Sabbath ? ) accused
for being the reason for committed crimes ?

Nothing of the above has anything to do with Ronnie.

Or with most of the people.Constructing an analogy of Keith´s riffing and one´s ( hidden ) wishes...which ones ? Beat up women,or anyone else ? Ridiculous !

By the way...Crazy Mama has some really over the top lyrics as well.

Quote
chris girard
I wonder why Mick has not stepped in and told Ronnie to dump the Russian chick and clean up his act.

1. The story is barely 24 hours old
2. You don't know for sure WHAT Mick has or hasn't done. Not everything he does has to be splashed all over the papers.

Quote
StratoGR
I heard that when Keith Richards was in Mykonos like 10 years ago, he was fighting with his wife and I think he beat her but I am not sure.Just roumors.

Then why bother mentioning it at all?

Quote
CBII
If true, that's a real bummer man. If true, of course money will exchange hands and he will do no time but whooping a woman's head is not the thing to do. If true, he needs to get some serious help.

What this means to The Rolling Stones is anyones guess. I'm not going to speculate on that.

Quite right too CBII, but one might nevertheless reasonably assume that in varying degrees, the "RS machine" is concerned, not well pleased, and heavens only knows what might be going on backstage behind closed doors.

Quote
shortfatfanny

Strange enough Let It Bleed was released 40 years ago.One can ( over-) analyse
every ( rock ) song to death,in the end MR ,to stick to this example ,is fantastic music with lyrics creating a certain tension and atmosphere hardly been topped ( I think never ) live by any other artist.Brusselles 73 the peak.

I totally agree with you. But the irony is that its subject matter is far from savoury and it would not exist had not a certain violent rapist existed in Boston. I'd never really given a second thought to this or its lyrical content before -let alone analysed it. I'd just dug it musically.

Ofcourse it's got nothing to do with the Ekat/Ronnie incident.
I simply thought laterally and it occurred 'odd' to me that we can accept and enjoy the Stones ritually enacting something really very violent and mysogenistic (with its origin in a real case with real victims and their families etc.) while when presented with a relatively minor, real-life, 'closer to home' scenario we find it so shocking.

OK - maybe lateral, (personal) reflections should not have entered this thread.

Back to the 'real' world. OUT.

Quote
stargroover
He's a Rolling Stone for goodness sake!I can't understand why some folk are so outraged.Jesus has everybody become so prim and proper in their old age?I am not condoning his actions but why is everyone so shocked?
Of course they will still tour with Ronnie.It will probably be the best tonic for him.Lets roll !

Because he's no longer in his 30s, 40's or even 50's !!!

What was once shrugged off as being 'rock n roll' is now just deeply pathetic and embarassing when being done by a Grandad in a high street

FSW

Quote
stargroover
He's a Rolling Stone for goodness sake!I!

That is exactly why he should NOT behave like some drunken white thrash idiot. A rolling stone should be a class act.

If Ronnie did in fact choke EK or whatever, and this episode in his life ends his stint as a Stone what could Mick and Keith and Charlie do if not bring Taylor back. Who could replace Ronnie? It would be kind of dumb not to bring him back for help.

It would be cheaper for The Stones to bring Ronnie back, he is a full time member and if his out the Stones probably have to give him a ton of money. Nevertheless it would be a plus for The Stones to bring some of that golden equation back with Taylor.

It has happened before. Long gone members coming back to bands... for example. When Howie Epstein died (the bassist for Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers) they hired back their orginal bassist many many many many years later after he quit.

Ronnie probably will be back onstage, but what if he cant tour next year? What then.

There is a video of Keith saying he misses Mick Taylor and Bill Wyman...

On the arrest, Ronnie better end this relationship now... every time something happens its worse and worse... vicious circle of violence. A man his age needs peace, and with his money and fame am sure he can get a bunch of hot woman backstage (cheap)

Quote
TheKingBee
I have a hard time seeing Keith beating his wife, in my opinion, Keith is a perfect gentleman towards women. But that is just how I see it

Well, I seem to remember (Barbara Charone or Victor Bockris) mentionned in a book that Keith beat up Anita. Also some interview of Jo after the split hinted (that's how I read it anyway) that Ronnie was sometimes violent (at least verbally) with her.

There is of course no excuse for such a behaviour, and it is sad and weak to hit someone instead of talking. But it seems some women know how to make men crack up, some even start fighting or scratching first. And it only gets worse with passion and alcohol.

Quote
CaptainGlassback
He sadly, by his own admission, is not good with money, (or a guitar for that matter!), and he couldn't see that she is simply after his cash. Dump the tart go play with the Faces and make way for the return of Mick Taylor.....the only man who can help the Stones recapture the blues. Meantime sincere best wishes to Ronnie and I hope that he can keep the alcohol to a sensible level over The Festive Boozing Season.

The Taylor argument is a side issue which is, at the moment anyway, pretty irrelevant.

The notion that he's the only other decent guitarist in the world - or even the only one with an inclination to redirect them to their 'true path' as a blues band - is fanciful.

The 21st century version of the Stones is as far removed from the 1963 model as it's possible to get.

There's no money in the blues, and their target audience these days wouldnt be able to appreciate that form of music if it bit them on the arse. Most of them would probably see a live performance of something like 'Prodigal Son' or 'Still a Fool' as an excuse for a piss break or a trip to the concession stand to buy a few of those hideous bobble-headed dolls.

Quote
ironbelly
turd
She also may have wanted to move her mother in - now that could have ended in murder.
___________
Well... Move to her mother is not very russian style of life. You do not know russian woman. In Russia they have a saying for this case that translates like "if he bits me it means he loves me". Very Russian, very specific and very stupid. And believe me, russian woman used to tolerate drunk junkies and alcoholics. To be drunk and to bit woman under influence... that is not very unusual in Russia. Especially in rural regions. And Katya for sure came from one of those depressing post-Soviet region. So it is not all over now

But I think Ronnie is way out of normal state. Maybe they would be able to cure him. However, knowing alcoholics (an in particular quite a few russian in person) I doubt anyone could drag him back.

Agreed. Maybe, just maybe, this will shock Ronnie into rehab for once really meaning it. But his record isn't good. Rehab is just to get on the tour and he equates a sober lifestyle with a boring lifestyle. If he carries on it's only gonna get worse and he'll lose everything. He'll surely be sacked by the Stones just to begin with. It's all very sad but frankly I don't have a lot of sympathy. He's had more chances than most.

Quote
Four Stone Walls

Quote
JumpingKentFlash
Can I just put in my two cents to all those who eyes the opportunity of a Mick Taylor reunion: F*** OFF!!!!
Of course it's total shite from Woody if he beat up The Ek, but let's not start a whole frickin' campaign on all his bad sides. He's a Rolling motherhonkin' Stone. He's SUPPOSED to have bad sides, even though beating up your woman ain't a good thing. It's just not cool to bash his guitar playing from this incident. I mean come on: Brian shined up his girls rather neatly too, and I hear nobody judging his skills as a musician based on that. This whole thing is bad. Of course it is. You don't smack your girl up, and that's the end of it. You just don't do it no matter what. That's a big mistake and I'm very much against that sort of behaviour. Just don't get carried away and start the bloody Taylor-craving and call Woody an embarrasment. He's a great guitar player and you know it. That's why he's in The Stones, (and some people here need to realize that he and Brian fit better than Mick Taylor ever did).

Kent, I don't know that he's a great guitar player any more. I'm not sure that he ever was. Great musician and unique talent, yes. I know that he has been a musical embarrasment on too many occasions in recent tours.

Ron may be a better social fit than Brian or MickT. that's principally why he's in the Stones and why they've stayed together. But no question in my mind when the Stones were at their peak live musically.


What I find odd is how so many can moralise about Ron's reputed behaviour while I assume most of the same people love the Midnight Rambler, a song which it's hard not to associate with sexual violence - in fact which owes its existence to it.

Y'know..........I guess that's a major part of why I don't like this song so much........

Quote
gwen

Quote
TheKingBee
I have a hard time seeing Keith beating his wife, in my opinion, Keith is a perfect gentleman towards women. But that is just how I see it

Well, I seem to remember (Barbara Charone or Victor Bockris) mentionned in a book that Keith beat up Anita. Also some interview of Jo after the split hinted (that's how I read it anyway) that Ronnie was sometimes violent (at least verbally) with her.

Brian certainly beat up Anita.

From memory, the impression I got from her relationship with Keith was that it was often volatile, although I wouldnt go as far to say he 'beat her up'. I certainly dont recall reading that. Sounds like she wasn't adverse to a few violent outbursts herself.

<He's had more chances than most.>

Every guitar player in the Stones have...

----------------------------------------------------
[www.facebook.com]

>> Well, I seem to remember (Barbara Charone or Victor Bockris) mentioned in a book ... <<

it's in Bockris, not Charone. and as i noted somewhere earlier in this thread, Bockris didn't witness it,
nor does he clarify whom (if anyone) he's quoting. it reads like a dramatization, but what is it based on??

i'm lighting more incense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-12-04 19:21 by with sssoul.

Quote
Gazza
From memory, the impression I got from her relationship with Keith was that it was often volatile, although I wouldnt go as far to say he 'beat her up'. I certainly dont recall reading that.

I don't remember where I read that, but I'm not mixing up Brian and Keith. It didn't say that it happened on a regular basis. From memory, it's something like Keith and Anita were on their way home and Marlon was closing his eyes not to see Keith hit Anita. Just because I read it doesn't make it true!

But as you say, Anita didn't seem the kind of woman to cool things down in an argument.

Quote
with sssoul
it's in Bockris, not Charone. and as i noted somewhere earlier in this thread, Bockris didn't witness it,
nor does he clarify whom (if anyone) he's quoting. it reads like a dramatization.
and i'm lighting more incense.

Thank you! I knew I had read it somewhere.

I must say, as much as I'd hate to see Ronnie axed, I really would be surprised if he is kept in the Stones after this. I mean they almost went out on tour without him as recently as 2002, and I can't imagine Mick, Mr. Woman-Lover himself, condoning this sort of behavior, and I'd even go so far as to suggest there must be a contract in place with Ronnie being a member of the RS that says he only is if he maintains a certain level......I've gotta believe there's an out in a contract (Mick's a very intelligent man) that would allow for Ronnie' firing...

As for it being cheaper to bring back Ronnie, would it not be cheaper to hire a guitarist for the tour and keep the proceeds split amongst 3 only?? They could get a guitarist on the cheap cuz most people would probably jump at the chance to play with the Stones. Ronnie's Keith's pal, so it'd probably have to be someone that Keith approves like Waddy Watchel, but I could also see a Jack White being hired for the tour, or possibly a Dave Stewart. Each tour gets more expensive for us the ticket buyers and they will have to change something to get us to bite again, so the Mick Taylor argument would do that, but I agree I don't see him in shape to last over a 2+ year tour, and if the Who weren't gearing up for another jaunt, I'd say perhaps Townshend...Clapton's far too tight for the band for anything other than a guest spot.....Jack White would be my #1 choice, personally.

I really don't see how Mick and Keith can stand-by and not do anything this time. They are not young anymore and whether they're the Stones or not, sponsors are going to be VERY hard to come by after something like this - look at how the media and venues have turned on the likes of Chris Brown and Kanye, and their far more relevant these days and popular than our dearly beloved band.....No, I'm sorry there is nothing but more bad/sad news ahead for our band and any possibly tour plans. Mick's gotta be sooooooooooo Fin infuriated these past few days!

Just my 2 cents....

Quote
black n blue
WTF, Ronnie is a grown man.

He should act like one then.

I don't know what to say about Ronnie's incident, but I would not go see a Rolling Stones show with Dave Stewart, Jack White or Waddy on guitar in place of Ronnie.

Would be interesting to know whether the band have in their contracts (to people like Cohl, sponsors, UNIVERSAL, etc) a code of conduct - obviously it would differ very much from what you and i adhere to in our regular jobs... but my point is this:

Would his action (if proven true) force Cohl, sponsors, etc, to pull out of any deal if Ronnie is involved with the band?....

Would the Stones stick with Ronnie and go with a new promoter/sponsor who doesn't care whether members are beating up women, OR, would they ditch him as they're more interested in where the BIGGER BUCK £$£$ is at?

If there is a code of conduct I'd think that it would only be for Ronnie, as a non-original member, no? We all know they have to pass their physicals for the sponsors in order to get the insurance in place for the new tour.....not so sure at this point that 30 days of rehab would get Ronnie to pass that test if he is such the drinker...