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I thought Blind Faith beat them to it in the summer of '69.
We're talking about "arena rock", though. 15,000 to 20,000 seat venues. Promoters took a look at Woodstock and asked themselves "How can we put a fence around this and make a fortune?" and that's how we got arena tours and stadium tours, but it didn't happen overnight. Truth is, even after the Stones did arenas in '69, it took a while for other bands to start doing arena tours. Even in '72, when the Stones did it again, arena tours were still rare. Stadium tours (except for the Beatles, of course) really didn't get going until CSNY in '74. That was the culmination of the "Let's put a fence around Woodstock" idea.
Led Zep did large arena (20K+ seaters) tours in 70, 71 and 72, and even did stadiums in Australia in 72. In fact, Ron Wood mentions in his last book that Jagger consulted Robert Plant on how to tour Australia properly.
Although we love to think the Stones have ever been the biggest band in the world they certainly weren't in 69 to 71. In fact, many 1970 shows wheren't even sold out. Led Zep has always been much more popular, especially in the states.
Mathijs
Yeah, I don't think the Beatles even traveled with their own PA cabinets, just those 100 watt "superbeatle" amps that Vox custom built for them. For the PA, I think they just got miked through the venue's own PA system. Like at Shea Stadium everything just came blaring out of the public address speakers in the SCOREBOARD!
Zep was certainly playing arenas by '72, but I'm not sure about '70 and '71. I'll have to do some research on that. I don't think that even the Who really started doing full-blown arena tours until '72 at the earliest. I don't think they even played MSG until '74. When they played New York in '71, they played at the 16,000 capacity Forest Hills Tennis Stadium, where the Stones had played in '66 and the Beatles had played in '64.
Okay, you're right about Zeppelin. The 1970 spring tour of the U.S. was a full-blown arena tour. And even the 1969 fall tour included a couple of arena shows. They played the Olympia in Detroit, and Boston Garden, in Oct. '69.
A quick look at the Who's concert history shows, perversely enough, that they tour more NOW than they did in the 70s! The Who's U.S. tours in '70 and '71 were a mix of theatre and arena dates, and even one stadium gig in Anaheim, CA. But they didn't do their first full-blown arena tour of America until Dec. '71, a full two years after the Stones.
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Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
hbwriter
()
Date: November 28, 2009 17:04
That tour, given the sound and light package, given the planning, and given the size of the halls--is this essentially the start of "arena rock" as it became known soon after? I'd think every major tour after this for any huge band, be it Zep or The Who or anything in between, at least for a time had to look at this tour as marker of sorts--how to spend money, how to make money, how to fill a place with sound, etc?
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: November 28, 2009 17:08
Not sure if it's the first arena tour. I know the Stones were not the first band to play MSG. Blind Faith played MSG several months before the Stones, and there may have been others (The Doors? Janis?).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-28 17:21 by tatters.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-28 17:21 by tatters.
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: November 28, 2009 17:35
Did a little research. Janis played the Garden in Dec. 69, a few weeks after the Stones, but the birth of arena rock has to be The Doors concert at MSG in Jan. 69, nearly a YEAR before the Stones played there.
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: November 28, 2009 19:14
From what I understand it is the first tour by a band to lug a PA around that size for that size venue.
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
hbwriter
()
Date: November 28, 2009 19:42
It's not about just playing the garden--it's about an arena *tour* - a full scale undertaking where they cart their gear all over the place - the strategy of planning and promoting a tour of that scale
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-28 20:05 by hbwriter.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-28 20:05 by hbwriter.
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
deadegad
()
Date: November 28, 2009 20:00
I recall Keith mentioning that The Stones would have learned from the Beatles how to do these things if the Beatles had still been touring. It is probably right that this Stones 1969 tour was indeed the beginning of of 'Rock Tours' as we know them to be.
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: November 28, 2009 20:10
Didn't Cream already tour all major indoor venues in '68?
Mathijs
Mathijs
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
melillo
()
Date: November 28, 2009 20:32
HAS TO BE THE STONES, BLIND FAITH COULD HARDLY SET A STANDARD
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: November 28, 2009 20:36
Er, no. Led Zeppelin toured the States alone no less than 5 times in 69. Zep's Fillmore West 69 boot is testimony to all the hard work they put in to touring. One of the best live recordings of all time.
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: November 28, 2009 21:07
Quote
hbwriter
It's not about just playing the garden--it's about an arena *tour* - a full scale undertaking where they cart their gear all over the place - the strategy of planning and promoting a tour of that scale
I thought Blind Faith beat them to it in the summer of '69.
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
stonesrule
()
Date: November 28, 2009 21:12
Cream, Hendrix, The Doors played arenas in 1968, including The Forum.
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: November 28, 2009 21:14
Quote
Silver Dagger
Er, no. Led Zeppelin toured the States alone no less than 5 times in 69. Zep's Fillmore West 69 boot is testimony to all the hard work they put in to touring. One of the best live recordings of all time.
We're talking about "arena rock", though. 15,000 to 20,000 seat venues. Promoters took a look at Woodstock and asked themselves "How can we put a fence around this and make a fortune?" and that's how we got arena tours and stadium tours, but it didn't happen overnight. Truth is, even after the Stones did arenas in '69, it took a while for other bands to start doing arena tours. Even in '72, when the Stones did it again, arena tours were still rare. Stadium tours (except for the Beatles, of course) really didn't get going until CSNY in '74. That was the culmination of the "Let's put a fence around Woodstock" idea.
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
ryanpow
()
Date: November 28, 2009 21:27
yeah I think cream, hendrix and the doors had done arena shows.
this reminds me of an interview in "accoarding to the rolling stones" where mick is talking about how they had to get riggers from Disney and Holiday On Ice because back then there wasn't yet a real rock tour industry. He also said that at that point Pink Floyd was the only other band he knew of that were putting on shows at the level the stones were.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-28 21:29 by ryanpow.
this reminds me of an interview in "accoarding to the rolling stones" where mick is talking about how they had to get riggers from Disney and Holiday On Ice because back then there wasn't yet a real rock tour industry. He also said that at that point Pink Floyd was the only other band he knew of that were putting on shows at the level the stones were.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-28 21:29 by ryanpow.
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
tomk
()
Date: November 28, 2009 21:36
The blueprint is the Beatles' summer tour of the US in 1964.
It's all basketball/hockey arenas, large-scale places.
It's all basketball/hockey arenas, large-scale places.
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
hbwriter
()
Date: November 29, 2009 02:21
TK--i respectfully disagree--those Beatles tours weren't about "arena rock" - it was some tiny stage, a few tinny speakers and local promoters handling everything so every show was put up different--the stones 69 tour was an orchestrated "campaign" -
tatters--what you said is just what i was getting at - the arena rock tour as a concept - not a strung together series of one offs
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-29 02:34 by hbwriter.
tatters--what you said is just what i was getting at - the arena rock tour as a concept - not a strung together series of one offs
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-29 02:34 by hbwriter.
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
Beelyboy
()
Date: November 29, 2009 04:45
wish we had arena shows; not tremendous concrete stadium yup bunkers...pitiful...silly...all about the bucks...the performances often tend to show this these last years.
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
Doctor Dear!
()
Date: November 29, 2009 06:23
the stones just refined the arena rock scene
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
tomk
()
Date: November 29, 2009 08:39
Quote
hbwriter
TK--i respectfully disagree--those Beatles tours weren't about "arena rock" - it was some tiny stage, a few tinny speakers and local promoters handling everything so every show was put up different--the stones 69 tour was an orchestrated "campaign" -
I know what you mean with the "arena rock" and the "orchestrated campaign",
but the first Beatle summer tour is really the blueprint for what came later,
that night after night slog through basketball/hockey arenas.
True that local promoters were involved, but that's always happened,
and still does.
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: November 29, 2009 12:44
Quote
tatters
Even in '72, when the Stones did it again, arena tours were still rare. Stadium tours (except for the Beatles, of course) really didn't get going until CSNY in '74. That was the culmination of the "Let's put a fence around Woodstock" idea.
Led Zep did large arena (20K+ seaters) tours in 70, 71 and 72, and even did stadiums in Australia in 72. In fact, Ron Wood mentions in his last book that Jagger consulted Robert Plant on how to tour Australia properly.
Although we love to think the Stones have ever been the biggest band in the world they certainly weren't in 69 to 71. In fact, many 1970 shows wheren't even sold out. Led Zep has always been much more popular, especially in the states.
Mathijs
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
whitem8
()
Date: November 29, 2009 12:58
Actually I think tomk is correct. The Beatles 1964 tour was the first of its kind. Yes the PA and all the other technical stuff wasn't at the level as 69, but it was the beginning. They were the first Brit band to have a coordinated, financed, and advertised tour of the US. They played arenas, baseball fields, orchestra halls, etc... And then Shea was when the idea spawned that it could go to a whole new level. Gotta be the Fab Four.
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: November 29, 2009 16:05
Quote
hbwriter
TK--i respectfully disagree--those Beatles tours weren't about "arena rock" - it was some tiny stage, a few tinny speakers and local promoters handling everything so every show was put up different--the stones 69 tour was an orchestrated "campaign" -
tatters--what you said is just what i was getting at - the arena rock tour as a concept - not a strung together series of one offs
Yeah, I don't think the Beatles even traveled with their own PA cabinets, just those 100 watt "superbeatle" amps that Vox custom built for them. For the PA, I think they just got miked through the venue's own PA system. Like at Shea Stadium everything just came blaring out of the public address speakers in the SCOREBOARD!
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
whitem8
()
Date: November 29, 2009 16:11
Yeah they played through Shea's PA! WOW That must have sounded horrible! But the sound board boot from that show is pretty good. And the 65 show as well.
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: November 29, 2009 16:14
Quote
MathijsQuote
tatters
Even in '72, when the Stones did it again, arena tours were still rare. Stadium tours (except for the Beatles, of course) really didn't get going until CSNY in '74. That was the culmination of the "Let's put a fence around Woodstock" idea.
Led Zep did large arena (20K+ seaters) tours in 70, 71 and 72, and even did stadiums in Australia in 72. In fact, Ron Wood mentions in his last book that Jagger consulted Robert Plant on how to tour Australia properly.
Zep was certainly playing arenas by '72, but I'm not sure about '70 and '71. I'll have to do some research on that. I don't think that even the Who really started doing full-blown arena tours until '72 at the earliest. I don't think they even played MSG until '74. When they played New York in '71, they played at the 16,000 capacity Forest Hills Tennis Stadium, where the Stones had played in '66 and the Beatles had played in '64.
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: November 29, 2009 16:25
Quote
tattersQuote
MathijsQuote
tatters
Even in '72, when the Stones did it again, arena tours were still rare. Stadium tours (except for the Beatles, of course) really didn't get going until CSNY in '74. That was the culmination of the "Let's put a fence around Woodstock" idea.
Led Zep did large arena (20K+ seaters) tours in 70, 71 and 72, and even did stadiums in Australia in 72. In fact, Ron Wood mentions in his last book that Jagger consulted Robert Plant on how to tour Australia properly.
Zep was certainly playing arenas by '72, but I'm not sure about '70 and '71. I'll have to do some research on that. I don't think that even the Who really started doing full-blown arena tours until '72 at the earliest. I don't think they even played MSG until '74. When they played New York in '71, they played at the 16,000 capacity Forest Hills Tennis Stadium, where the Stones had played in '66 and the Beatles had played in '64.
Okay, you're right about Zeppelin. The 1970 spring tour of the U.S. was a full-blown arena tour. And even the 1969 fall tour included a couple of arena shows. They played the Olympia in Detroit, and Boston Garden, in Oct. '69.
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: November 29, 2009 16:51
Quote
tatters
I don't think that even the Who really started doing full-blown arena tours until '72 at the earliest. I don't think they even played MSG until '74. When they played New York in '71, they played at the 16,000 capacity Forest Hills Tennis Stadium, where the Stones had played in '66 and the Beatles had played in '64.
A quick look at the Who's concert history shows, perversely enough, that they tour more NOW than they did in the 70s! The Who's U.S. tours in '70 and '71 were a mix of theatre and arena dates, and even one stadium gig in Anaheim, CA. But they didn't do their first full-blown arena tour of America until Dec. '71, a full two years after the Stones.
Re: Is the '69 tour the arena rock blueprint/birth point?
Posted by:
virgil
()
Date: November 29, 2009 18:08
Quote
tattersQuote
hbwriter
It's not about just playing the garden--it's about an arena *tour* - a full scale undertaking where they cart their gear all over the place - the strategy of planning and promoting a tour of that scale
I beleive, correct me if I am wrong but wasn't this the first tour for any group where they brought thier own stage to every venue.
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