Reading Das Weissbuch's notes & comments to the US promo 7" single 'Before The Make Me Run' I can conclude I've got the 'Counterfeit' version.
Is it still a common view that there is an existence of a 'Original' and a 'Counterfeit' version?

Anybody got more information?
mattleeuk, Guðni Gunnarsson, steffiestones, arc-angel. Anyone?

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Gintaine

Reading Das Weissbuch's notes & comments to the US promo 7" single 'Before The Make Me Run' I can conclude I've got the 'Counterfeit' version.
Is it still a common view that there is an existence of a 'Original' and a 'Counterfeit' version?

Anybody got more information?
mattleeuk, Guðni Gunnarsson, steffiestones, arc-angel. Anyone?

Hi Gintaine,

it is indeed very difficult to distinguish real and fake and as Hoffie wrote there are discussions amongst collectors over the years, but I can show you my version here:



.. and you see that the tongue is slightly different to yours (yours has some more black under the front teeth ...), as well as the letters below the title are slightly thinner on my label. btw. my record is with matrix# beginning with ST... on the Stereo side and PR... on the mono side, so I hope I have the real one :-). I never had a version like yours in my hand up to now , so it is difficult to me to really check it.

Andreas

Andreas, thanks for your help.

Yes, you seem to have what Hoffie calls the "Original" (Matrix: ST-PR-316-1 SP Ct 4P//PR-316-1 SP Ct 4P). My copy (Matrix: PR-316-1 SP Ct 4P//PR-316-1 SP Ct 4P) would be the "Counterfeit", but mine has mono on BOTH sides (written on both label sides too!).

Why not two original pressings? One Stereo/Mono and the other Mono/Mono?

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Gintaine
Andreas, thanks for your help.

Yes, you seem to have what Hoffie calls the "Original" (Matrix: ST-PR-316-1 SP Ct 4P//PR-316-1 SP Ct 4P). My copy (Matrix: PR-316-1 SP Ct 4P//PR-316-1 SP Ct 4P) would be the "Counterfeit", but mine has mono on BOTH sides (written on both label sides too!).

Why not two original pressings? One Stereo/Mono and the other Mono/Mono?

Hi Gintaine,

your new scan really helps, because as you can see the tongue is not that clean printed (white shadow and the white area in the tongue is different).
I don't think its an original pressing, sorry to burst the bubble .... I own a lot of promo 7inch from RSR and all are one side STEREO and the other MONO mix, up to now I haven't seen another mono/mono promo record from RSR aera, but I will check it to be really sure ...

Andreas

X



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-08-15 22:19 by UrbanSteel.

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UrbanSteel
Some Of these records have become quite collectable.

UrbanSteel, you mean the counterfeits are collectable? Would you care to put a guiding price on both versions?

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arc-angel
your new scan really helps, because as you can see the tongue is not that clean printed

It's a photo, actually - Andreas, the whole logo design is different, not only the print quality. But why do a counterfeit project and fail on such a point, the logo authenticity. Strange!?

X



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-08-15 22:18 by UrbanSteel.

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Gintaine
the whole logo design is different, not only the print quality. But why do a counterfeit project and fail on such a point, the logo authenticity. Strange!?

I am not an expert on collecting records... but from what I do know about graphics, I would say that the main difference in the appearance of the logo is not the logo's design per se, but rather that the red printing plate is not "registered" -- not aligned with the yellow and the black correctly. This results in small slivers of white showing in various spots in the logo area.

schillid, can we conclude that a truly official record company never would let it come so far and therefore this record of mine must be a counterfeit?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-07 17:59 by Gintaine.

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Gintaine
schillid, can we conclude that a truly official record company never would let it come so far and therefore this record of mine must be a counterfeit?

I don't know about record counterfeiting or any of that.
I can see that the printing is bad on that one label though.

Theres a PROMO blue label MONO/STEREO "Run Rudolph Run" too. And the PROMO Stereo mix IS different than the yellow label Stereo mix too.

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arc-angel

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Gintaine
Andreas, thanks for your help.

Yes, you seem to have what Hoffie calls the "Original" (Matrix: ST-PR-316-1 SP Ct 4P//PR-316-1 SP Ct 4P). My copy (Matrix: PR-316-1 SP Ct 4P//PR-316-1 SP Ct 4P) would be the "Counterfeit", but mine has mono on BOTH sides (written on both label sides too!).

Why not two original pressings? One Stereo/Mono and the other Mono/Mono?

Hi Gintaine,

your new scan really helps, because as you can see the tongue is not that clean printed (white shadow and the white area in the tongue is different).
I don't think its an original pressing, sorry to burst the bubble .... I own a lot of promo 7inch from RSR and all are one side STEREO and the other MONO mix, up to now I haven't seen another mono/mono promo record from RSR aera, but I will check it to be really sure ...

Andreas

Yes, I hate to say it but Gintaine's copy is most probably the counterfate one rather than a mispressing. My copy is the same as arc-angel's one.

There are also in circulation counterfate sleeves of Heart Of Stone US and Beast Of Burden US. They appear to be slightly thicker than the original ones.

But my recommendation to Gintaine is to just sit back and enjoy this fantastic version you have of Before They Make Me Run. Fake or not fake, it is simply far superior to the album version in my opinion.

What's a copy of Before They Make Me Run the real version worth < I assume the p/s is also an added value . Thanks

My guess would be 50$ for both. Not sure though. It's always hard to put exact value on records.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-08 01:33 by Guðni Gunnarsson.

Most of the promo 45s that i've seen are white on one side & robin's egg blue on the other...both sides
with black printing & black ink logo. White side MONO & blue side STEREO.

The one I'm looking at right now is Keith's Run Rudolph Run promotional copy.


IORR............but I like it!

re: logo print misalignment

that's not a give away that a record is counterfeit..is it? that can happen during the
printing of official labels too..right?


IORR............but I like it!

also...can anybody confirm that the lips logo on the run rudolph/harder they come single (5C 006-62333)
is at the upper right (2 oclock) on the label? both sides....and on the pic sleeve too.??? thanks.


IORR............but I like it!

No , I've got that record and sleeve and on the rear of the sleeve it says


SPECIAL EDITION
NOT FOR SALE

Before They Make Me Run
The Rolling Stones
From The Rolling Stones album "Some Girls "
on Rolling Stones Records and Tapes
COC/TP/CS 39108

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sweet neo con
also...can anybody confirm that the lips logo on the run rudolph/harder they come single (5C 006-62333)
is at the upper right (2 oclock) on the label? both sides....and on the pic sleeve too.??? thanks.

I've got a Dutch and Italian issues of this one and the lips logo is in the upper right (2 oclock) on those labels .

However the logo is at 9 oclock on the US promo , US general release and the Japanese issue .

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boston2006

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sweet neo con
also...can anybody confirm that the lips logo on the run rudolph/harder they come single (5C 006-62333)
is at the upper right (2 oclock) on the label? both sides....and on the pic sleeve too.??? thanks.

I've got a Dutch and Italian issues of this one and the lips logo is in the upper right (2 oclock) on those labels .

However the logo is at 9 oclock on the US promo , US general release and the Japanese issue .

thanks


IORR............but I like it!

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sweet neo con
Most of the promo 45s that i've seen are white on one side & robin's egg blue on the other...both sides
with black printing & black ink logo. White side MONO & blue side STEREO.

The one I'm looking at right now is Keith's Run Rudolph Run promotional copy.

After digging it out you are right, my Run Rudolph promo is white/blue label

>> re: logo print misalignment <<

it's not just that the red printing plate is misaligned, though -
the black under the teeth and the outlining of the lip/tongue are both different from the original, no?
and the white "highlights" in the tongue seem to be shaped differently as well

(not that i know anything about graphics or counterfeiting - just getting educated here)

Thanks guys for your input.
I keep my 7inch, maybe the most sought-after Stones counterfeit.

-

mattleeuk, steffiestones - care to put some light on this subject (on a lazy Sunday)?

-

JR, we need you, man!
When is your book ready?

Time to bump this thread that can be very useful for the vinyls collector guys

If you're checkin' on EBAY like me since month , you'll see tons of counterfeit ones at high prices.

Got my counterfeit one for 25 € and I'm happy with it.
The only original one I've seen on the BAY was over 150 USD...and it was too late for me to bid . So for those who want to bid for this gem , read above before !!!

HMN

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Honestman
The only original one I've seen on the BAY was over 150 USD...and it was too late for me to bid . So for those who want to bid for this gem , read above before !!!

I bought my copy 2 months ago on ebay for 40 USD and is the real thing... not a boot. So you never know....

@Ricky

Lucky Guy

HMN



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-09-09 20:53 by Honestman.

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Honestman
@Ricky

Lucky Guy

...this time. Usually the opposite happens on ebay, but this time I was a lucky guy.
I hope you can find a good copy soon