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A fear that their lives shows are not good enough? Which may be the reason there are precious few live releases from them.
Liddas,
That's a very interesting take on live recordings. How would you explain a Stones boot like Very Ancient Thank You Kindly which purports to be an unreleased live album from 1972 - the songs have only a passing resemblance to how they sounded on that tour. The songs sound like they have been recorded live in a studio, not on stage. The vocals are of a far higher quality than
'Love You Live' being a classic example. It's a twisted form of genius to overdub vocals in the studio and sing that badly.
Maybe it's an attempt to sound authentically 'live'
he certainly did a few. [deaddodo.org]
Pretty astonishing to think that what must have been the worst ever vocal performance on any version of Jumpin Jack Flash was largely worked on in a studio.
Precious few? I count NINE official live albums, of which only Ya-Ya's is absolutely essential. Actually, I guess there's TEN if you count Rock And Roll Circus.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-07 16:30 by tatters.
You are correct. It's a weird sound, it sounds like a remnant of the overdub sessions they did but used nothing in the end.
Mathijs
From what I read "Made in Japan" is free of overdubs. This was just another reason why MIJ is such a monster live album. Just about every cut on the album holds it's own against the studio version. I used to think that they were all flat out "better" but have gown up a little since. But yes - Paice was always on fire, Lord really rose to the occasion; but it is Gillan and especially Blackmore who rule the show. Not much hiding behind effects; lots of chops.
And I did talk about "Got Live" in my post. Nobody reads what I say.
Talk about your favorite band.
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why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
mandu
()
Date: August 7, 2009 07:39
why do rolling stones albums get overdubbed?
Feel The Fear
And Do It Anyway
Feel The Fear
And Do It Anyway
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
ghostryder13
()
Date: August 7, 2009 07:52
overdubbing on live albums is used alot in the recording industry. the doors basically created a concert that never was on their 1997 box set. the live in new york disc basically is all newer music with jim morrisons vocals taken from different shows.
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: August 7, 2009 09:29
To prove that they are a better studio band than a live band...
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: August 7, 2009 10:24
Shine A Light wasn't overdubbed (and it shows...)
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
Father Ted
()
Date: August 7, 2009 10:51
Quote
mandu
why do rolling stones albums get overdubbed?
A fear that their lives shows are not good enough? Which may be the reason there are precious few live releases from them.
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: August 7, 2009 11:26
Times change.
Live recordings used to be the postcard of a tour. With exceptions, they were meant to be the representation of how the band sounds live, rather than the documentation of a particular concert.
Which is perfectly fine.
Vocals of performers like Jagger are usually overdubbed. Basically he spends most of the show running up and down the stage, which is great when you actually are there. But if you are not and you listen only to the recording, all the excitement produced by his stage show is lost, and what is left often sounds awful. Try recording your self singing while jogging!
Once you are in the framework of overdubbing, everything is allowed and it ends up like women makeup! Very very hard not to overdo it.
Today, thanks to filesharing on internet, the number of people who have access to the real thing are many more. It is like having the true pictures of all the Photoshopped models on the covers of magazines.
Gradually this changed the idea in the consumer of what a live recording should be. And, consequently, also the product changed.
C
Live recordings used to be the postcard of a tour. With exceptions, they were meant to be the representation of how the band sounds live, rather than the documentation of a particular concert.
Which is perfectly fine.
Vocals of performers like Jagger are usually overdubbed. Basically he spends most of the show running up and down the stage, which is great when you actually are there. But if you are not and you listen only to the recording, all the excitement produced by his stage show is lost, and what is left often sounds awful. Try recording your self singing while jogging!
Once you are in the framework of overdubbing, everything is allowed and it ends up like women makeup! Very very hard not to overdo it.
Today, thanks to filesharing on internet, the number of people who have access to the real thing are many more. It is like having the true pictures of all the Photoshopped models on the covers of magazines.
Gradually this changed the idea in the consumer of what a live recording should be. And, consequently, also the product changed.
C
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
Father Ted
()
Date: August 7, 2009 12:46
Quote
liddas
Times change.
Live recordings used to be the postcard of a tour. With exceptions, they were meant to be the representation of how the band sounds live, rather than the documentation of a particular concert.
Which is perfectly fine.
Vocals of performers like Jagger are usually overdubbed. Basically he spends most of the show running up and down the stage, which is great when you actually are there. But if you are not and you listen only to the recording, all the excitement produced by his stage show is lost, and what is left often sounds awful. Try recording your self singing while jogging!
Once you are in the framework of overdubbing, everything is allowed and it ends up like women makeup! Very very hard not to overdo it.
Today, thanks to filesharing on internet, the number of people who have access to the real thing are many more. It is like having the true pictures of all the Photoshopped models on the covers of magazines.
Gradually this changed the idea in the consumer of what a live recording should be. And, consequently, also the product changed.
C
Liddas,
That's a very interesting take on live recordings. How would you explain a Stones boot like Very Ancient Thank You Kindly which purports to be an unreleased live album from 1972 - the songs have only a passing resemblance to how they sounded on that tour. The songs sound like they have been recorded live in a studio, not on stage. The vocals are of a far higher quality than
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: August 7, 2009 13:17
Quote
liddas
Once you are in the framework of overdubbing, everything is allowed and it ends up like women makeup! Very very hard not to overdo it.
C[/quote
That's a good one liddas.
I can easily see why Jagger would want to re-do his vocals, since he moves so much; he feels like he can do them justice better. But on many of the boots they sound perfectly good IMO.
But I would say that the reasons change over the years. In '65 they were basically trying to do what James Brown had just done. We ooh and aah over "Fortune Teller" and "Ive been loving you too long" but back then it was no big deal. To be honest I think those 2 cuts work pretty well anyway.
"Ya-Ya's" is a doctored Live album. Not so much a document of what they sounded like but what the idea, the goal was. "Here, this is the ideal '69 Stones show. And you own it". And it also was a record of the evolution of these Stones songs; all new ones. I think it was an important decision in the Stones' image to put out the ferocious live versions of "Midnight Rambler" and "Sympathy", :"Street Fighting Man".
Now Love you Live is still more than just the contractual obligation. Especially Side 3. It was the Stones Mach III. I think Ron Wood deserved to be introduced like this. On that tour Jagger had to redo the vocals; he sang so badly, but the overdubs aren't that much better.
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
open-g
()
Date: August 7, 2009 13:24
Great explanation, Liddas.
...and funny too
...and funny too
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
SwayStones
()
Date: August 7, 2009 14:07
I've read that unlike many live albums, there were no studio overdubs, no splicing in of solos from other shows, and no fake applause in the "Live In Japan " from Deep Purple .
Is that true ?
I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .
Is that true ?
I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: August 7, 2009 14:17
Van Morrison's classic "Its Too Late To Stop Now" is 100% live. He refused to have even a note overdubbed.
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
stoneswashed77
()
Date: August 7, 2009 14:20
for me that´s not really a pity because i don´t like live recordings anyway.
i prefer studio recordings by far. i just don´t understand why all those overdub live performances still sound so bad?
i prefer studio recordings by far. i just don´t understand why all those overdub live performances still sound so bad?
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
tonterapi
()
Date: August 7, 2009 14:23
I can understand why singers wants to overdub their live vocals because of the issues that liddas mentioned. But it's pathetic when the instrumentation is altered or overdubbed. I mean if I put in a live recording of a song I don't expect it to sound like the studio version. It's OK if there mistakes and false notes IMO - it just make it human and real.
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: August 7, 2009 14:42
Quote
stoneswashed77
for me that´s not really a pity because i don´t like live recordings anyway.
i prefer studio recordings by far. i just don´t understand why all those overdub live performances still sound so bad?
'Love You Live' being a classic example. It's a twisted form of genius to overdub vocals in the studio and sing that badly.
Maybe it's an attempt to sound authentically 'live'
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: August 7, 2009 14:50
Do we know for a fact the Mick overdubbed that many vocal tracks for Love You Live?
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: August 7, 2009 15:23
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Do we know for a fact the Mick overdubbed that many vocal tracks for Love You Live?
he certainly did a few. [deaddodo.org]
Pretty astonishing to think that what must have been the worst ever vocal performance on any version of Jumpin Jack Flash was largely worked on in a studio.
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
canadian.sway
()
Date: August 7, 2009 15:25
lots of reasons bands overdub
- performances that sound great live don't necessarily sound great on tape
- the sound quality from the sound board may sound great through a pa but not put right to cd
- screw ups to 'fix'
- with overdubs things sound fuller or more impactful
- as mentioned with the doors, you can take parts of a live performance, mesh them with new tracks and make something that sounds better of differemt
- some bands don't want to sound the way they do live on an album etc etc etc
- performances that sound great live don't necessarily sound great on tape
- the sound quality from the sound board may sound great through a pa but not put right to cd
- screw ups to 'fix'
- with overdubs things sound fuller or more impactful
- as mentioned with the doors, you can take parts of a live performance, mesh them with new tracks and make something that sounds better of differemt
- some bands don't want to sound the way they do live on an album etc etc etc
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: August 7, 2009 16:10
In all reality Ya-Ya's, LYL and Still Life do NOT have that many overdubs. Yes, most vocals were redone, there's editing of songs to make them a bit shorter as long jams often don't work on a live record, but as far as guitar overdubs are concerned there really aren't that many done. Ya-Ya's has NO guitar overdubs at all, side 1, 2 and 4 of LYY has NO guitar overdubs I can think of, Still Life has only a few (Shattered and Let's Spend in the middle 8, and the solo of UMT always sounds suspicious to me).
The only live recording that actually is truly reworked is the recording that we all praise so much: El Mocambo. The (six+) guitars of Mannish Boy, Cracking Up and LRR are all done in the studio, the harmonica is redone, vocals are redone, and there's added piano as well.
Mathijs
The only live recording that actually is truly reworked is the recording that we all praise so much: El Mocambo. The (six+) guitars of Mannish Boy, Cracking Up and LRR are all done in the studio, the harmonica is redone, vocals are redone, and there's added piano as well.
Mathijs
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: August 7, 2009 16:27
Quote
Father TedQuote
mandu
why do rolling stones albums get overdubbed?
A fear that their lives shows are not good enough? Which may be the reason there are precious few live releases from them.
Precious few? I count NINE official live albums, of which only Ya-Ya's is absolutely essential. Actually, I guess there's TEN if you count Rock And Roll Circus.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-07 16:30 by tatters.
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: August 7, 2009 16:45
<In all reality Ya-Ya's, LYL and Still Life do NOT have that many overdubs.>
Yeah, that was my point. Compared to, for instance Thin Lizzy's "Live and dangerous", they are minimal...
Yeah, that was my point. Compared to, for instance Thin Lizzy's "Live and dangerous", they are minimal...
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: August 7, 2009 16:47
<and the solo of UMT always sounds suspicious to me>
Sounds identical to the boot. BUT: the mixing is brilliantly done.
Sounds identical to the boot. BUT: the mixing is brilliantly done.
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: August 7, 2009 17:19
From [deaddodo.org]:
'Let's spend the night together
Unbelievable: 100% Stones live! Although Mick's completely breathless, this one escaped censorship. The introducing words are from 1981.12.18. No cuts.'
That is not accurate at all. First off, the version that is on the album has the ending spliced from another show since the actual performance has the ending totally falling apart. And second the bridge has a third guitar overdubbed in it.
I never did understand why Mick would overdub harmonica on Mannish Boy and add more YEAHs to it that were sore thumb obvious studio overdubs. That's just bad.
'Let's spend the night together
Unbelievable: 100% Stones live! Although Mick's completely breathless, this one escaped censorship. The introducing words are from 1981.12.18. No cuts.'
That is not accurate at all. First off, the version that is on the album has the ending spliced from another show since the actual performance has the ending totally falling apart. And second the bridge has a third guitar overdubbed in it.
I never did understand why Mick would overdub harmonica on Mannish Boy and add more YEAHs to it that were sore thumb obvious studio overdubs. That's just bad.
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
WeLoveYou
()
Date: August 7, 2009 17:28
Little Queenie on Ya-Yas has a third guitar, listen carefully at the guitar break just after "Take off your shoes....". The third guitar is panned exact centre (as oppose to Mick T and Keith, panned left and right).
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
SwayStones
()
Date: August 7, 2009 17:33
Well ,I will be glad if someone would answer me :Yes or no ,"Live in Japan " was free of overdubs ?
Funny no one talks about the best example of a live overdubbed album :Got Live If You Want It !When I first bought it,I didn't noticed (I was only sixteen..)
My faves -tell me if I am mistaken -
"Train Kept A Rollin'" Aerosmith ( audience shouts )
Sir Zappa ( solo on "Inca Roads "/One Size Fits All) =the same on "You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore, Vol. 2"
"Live and Dangerous " Thin Lizzy ( I love it !!!!!)
" Live At Budokan " Cheap Trick.
Europe '72 Grateful Dead
I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .
Funny no one talks about the best example of a live overdubbed album :Got Live If You Want It !When I first bought it,I didn't noticed (I was only sixteen..)
My faves -tell me if I am mistaken -
"Train Kept A Rollin'" Aerosmith ( audience shouts )
Sir Zappa ( solo on "Inca Roads "/One Size Fits All) =the same on "You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore, Vol. 2"
"Live and Dangerous " Thin Lizzy ( I love it !!!!!)
" Live At Budokan " Cheap Trick.
Europe '72 Grateful Dead
I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: August 7, 2009 18:20
DandelionPowderman, have you ever listened to Love You Live?
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
boogie69
()
Date: August 7, 2009 21:08
Because they suck live!
No, seriously though, it's for all the reasons listed here, and like it's been said, some things just don't come across well on tape regardless of how good the sound was live. It does happen though. Take Brussels Affair for an example. My understanding of that is, it was recorded for radio broadcast, a King Biscuit Flower Hour show, so it's doubtful the Stones would have gone out of their way, or had the time, to doctor that show before broadcast, or bothered with it since. It probably had some mastering done, some sweetening by engineers to make it sound better for broadcast, but I doubt if there are any overdubs. So that proves that a band can play brilliantly and have high quality sound live, and it can sound good as is on a recording without any overdubbing or re-recording of parts. Plus, there are plenty of bootlegs around that, because they are bootlegs, are untouched but still sound incredible. It just doesn't always work out that way though, that's all. Sometimes ego and vanity also come into play, or just a simple snowball effect. One guy, or the whole band, or the producer, or whatever combination thereof, thinks his guitar part isn't quite right, and wants to change it. Then the singer wants to touch up a couple of vocals, the bass player wants to fix something, and the next thing you know, even though everything may have been fine to begin with, the whole thing has been re-done. I read that's what happened with Thin Lizzy's Live and Dangerous, everything was re-done except for the drums. And it supposedly started out small with just a couple of things here and there, and then snowballed into pretty much a completely new rocording.
No, seriously though, it's for all the reasons listed here, and like it's been said, some things just don't come across well on tape regardless of how good the sound was live. It does happen though. Take Brussels Affair for an example. My understanding of that is, it was recorded for radio broadcast, a King Biscuit Flower Hour show, so it's doubtful the Stones would have gone out of their way, or had the time, to doctor that show before broadcast, or bothered with it since. It probably had some mastering done, some sweetening by engineers to make it sound better for broadcast, but I doubt if there are any overdubs. So that proves that a band can play brilliantly and have high quality sound live, and it can sound good as is on a recording without any overdubbing or re-recording of parts. Plus, there are plenty of bootlegs around that, because they are bootlegs, are untouched but still sound incredible. It just doesn't always work out that way though, that's all. Sometimes ego and vanity also come into play, or just a simple snowball effect. One guy, or the whole band, or the producer, or whatever combination thereof, thinks his guitar part isn't quite right, and wants to change it. Then the singer wants to touch up a couple of vocals, the bass player wants to fix something, and the next thing you know, even though everything may have been fine to begin with, the whole thing has been re-done. I read that's what happened with Thin Lizzy's Live and Dangerous, everything was re-done except for the drums. And it supposedly started out small with just a couple of things here and there, and then snowballed into pretty much a completely new rocording.
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: August 7, 2009 21:24
Quote
WeLoveYou
Little Queenie on Ya-Yas has a third guitar, listen carefully at the guitar break just after "Take off your shoes....". The third guitar is panned exact centre (as oppose to Mick T and Keith, panned left and right).
You are correct. It's a weird sound, it sounds like a remnant of the overdub sessions they did but used nothing in the end.
Mathijs
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
Edith Grove
()
Date: August 9, 2009 19:11
Remember when they dug up Spider and The Fly for the Stripped album/video?
In the video, Mick made it sound like they just jumped right in and played it straight from memory.
Seems obvious, the final take may not have any overdubs, but I bet they went over that tune many times before finally putting it on tape.
In the video, Mick made it sound like they just jumped right in and played it straight from memory.
Seems obvious, the final take may not have any overdubs, but I bet they went over that tune many times before finally putting it on tape.
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
vancouver
()
Date: August 9, 2009 22:08
there's a lot of hendrix concerts now in merge stereo...some concers .even 3 sources mixed together...sounds good..!!!!!!!!
Re: why do Rolling Stones live albums get overdubbed?
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: August 9, 2009 22:31
Quote
SwayStones
Well ,I will be glad if someone would answer me :Yes or no ,"Live in Japan " was free of overdubs ?
Funny no one talks about the best example of a live overdubbed album :Got Live If You Want It !When I first bought it,I didn't noticed (I was only sixteen..)
My faves -tell me if I am mistaken -
"Train Kept A Rollin'" Aerosmith ( audience shouts )
Sir Zappa ( solo on "Inca Roads "/One Size Fits All) =the same on "You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore, Vol. 2"
"Live and Dangerous " Thin Lizzy ( I love it !!!!!)
" Live At Budokan " Cheap Trick.
Europe '72 Grateful Dead
From what I read "Made in Japan" is free of overdubs. This was just another reason why MIJ is such a monster live album. Just about every cut on the album holds it's own against the studio version. I used to think that they were all flat out "better" but have gown up a little since. But yes - Paice was always on fire, Lord really rose to the occasion; but it is Gillan and especially Blackmore who rule the show. Not much hiding behind effects; lots of chops.
And I did talk about "Got Live" in my post. Nobody reads what I say.
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