This list has been fascinating to read. Thank you for posting it. I have to wonder if the relationship with Jody Klein to Mick and Keith is going to be different in any way than when Allen was alive? Allen may have written things up for his kids in legal terms to give them security before his condition worsened, but is it possible for a thaw to occur? I don't expect for there to be questions to this, but I do wonder if Mick and Keith made more pleasant overtures to the Klein siblings as a way of getting potential future business more smoothed over and for some legal changes to occur where both sides benefit. There have been periods of time where I wondered if Mick and Keith were ever planning an aggressive takeover of the ABKCO material when Allen finally did pass away and if doing all of these huge profit making tours was Mick and Keith's way of amassing the money to pursue a takeover. I'm thinking it's not likely, but that was my thinking for a long time.
On another completely different point, Mick and Keith themselves have to have stashes of tapes from the '60s in their own possession as well. I would not believe it if the only thing they had was Taylor Era material on up to the present day in their possession. Everybody from all possible camps needs to sit down and have a major conference on getting things hammered out once and for all and get unreleased material released.
When I spoke to Keith during an AOL online chat before the ABKCO reissues came out, I asked Keith about where the original multi-track masters were. He responded by saying "Who's the little thief who wants to know?" I pressed him and he jokingly said they were buried in silos. It just leads me to believe, at some point in the distant past, Mick and Keith themselves played little thieves and took off with a chunk of their tapes and had them stored away themselves.
When I mean everybody needs to hammer things out so that everybody is happy, I mean everybody you can think of-all of the ABKCO people, all of the Universal people, Mick Taylor, Mick & Keith, Charlie, Bill and Ronnie all need to hammer out this one big gigantic mess in a blowout legal proceeding and make it so that archival material finally comes out.

Quote
thkbeercan
I worked for the old Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab for 20 years until it's demise in 1999 (longer than any other living person). When MFSL embarked on its 1984 Stones LP box project, they required original masters with which to work, and got from ABKCO a list of their library of Stones "master" tapes. I still have a copy of this multipage, typewritten document. Included are all the UK and US LP's, singles, EPS, as well as the Hyde Park concert, a master tape for Necrophilia, and a couple of tapes worth of songs which ended up on bootlegs like "The Trident Mixes" and some Exile boots (a lot of those songs were written during the last days of the Klein era.) A few odds and ends exist as well, but not much. It was left to the MFSL engineers to sort through it all to find which tapes were really masters as opposed to copy tapes since the ABKCO people had no idea and were rather unclear about the whole concept of 'audiophile' recordings to begin with!!

Rehearsal tapes, multitracks of any mono-only LP's, etc are nowhere to be found on these pages. Nor would we have expected to find them, as these items most likely were left at the studios where they were orginally recorded (a situation typical for the times) or in the hands of the Stones themselves. Since they were not master tapes of intended releases, there was no legal obilgation to forward them to a record label or manager. The "Trident Mixes" and Exile material are there most likely as demos for verification of songwriting copyright and were not intended as finished, releasable material. Again, remember that in the 1960's this was standard operating procedure, and no one had any forethought of CD retrospective boxed sets in the 21st century.

Wow, thanks for posting. Do you have any more details about the digital transfers? We were told by Gregg Schnitzer that they were done somewhat under the table, while the tapes were on site for the LPs.

As far as multitracks go, somebody once told me that some were in Universal's vault years ago, and ABKCO clearly has access to some now. Sympathy For the Devil was remixed to 5.1, and I'm Free has been remixed for use in commercials, presumably from the 3-track tape. Additionally, Good Times and Think were remixed (with additional overdubs) for Necrophilia.

Quote
thkbeercan
technically, binaural recording is a one position mike recording with 2 mike heads, kind of like a human head with 2 ears....it gives spatial ambiance but not much in the way of instrument separation. "Satifaction" and some of those other songs are not binaural recordings, but rather "ping-pong" stereo, with complete separation of channels and no overlap of instruments or vocals.

FYI, Satisfaction isn't even "binaural" by those terms - it is a left-center-right mix; there is no "hole in the middle".

Quote
thkbeercan
As I said, I worked for Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab for 20 years. During that time, MFSL issued "Sticky Fingers" and "Some Girls" as well, so we had the unique opportunity of dealing on both sides of the Rolling Stones fence, so to speak.

What happened with Sticky Fingers - that one doesn't sound right at all?

As promised the remaining sheets 14-21 Courtesy of thkbeercan
Once again thank you so very much!!!

Nick, you did good - thank you.

Now let's get back to the content we got....t's a lotta stuff - but well sort it.


wow wow! - 72stones and Lukpac!

How big are all of the images together? I could possibly host them if necessary, assuming they aren't too large.

It's 1.8 meg. By the way, do you have enough info to make a new revision to that kick ass SACD FAQ of yours?

What are those titles at the top of Page 18 ? At first I thought this is early stuff; maybe ALO Orchestra. Or some of those "Waving Hair" type medleys. But albums seem ROUGHLY grouped together, and those titles fall in between "Buttons" and "Banquet".

Good to see Bill's Black Box making the stand one more time.

This is a pretty incredible posting from Beercan; started out so quietly.

Quote
nick
It's 1.8 meg. By the way, do you have enough info to make a new revision to that kick ass SACD FAQ of yours?

If somebody e-mails it to me I'll post it, if that is ok.

David and I have been discussing that (the FAQ) for a while. I started setting things up for a database driven format, but we haven't gotten very far. At some point...

Quote
lukpac

Quote
thkbeercan
I worked for the old Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab for 20 years until it's demise in 1999 (longer than any other living person). When MFSL embarked on its 1984 Stones LP box project, they required original masters with which to work, and got from ABKCO a list of their library of Stones "master" tapes. I still have a copy of this multipage, typewritten document. Included are all the UK and US LP's, singles, EPS, as well as the Hyde Park concert, a master tape for Necrophilia, and a couple of tapes worth of songs which ended up on bootlegs like "The Trident Mixes" and some Exile boots (a lot of those songs were written during the last days of the Klein era.) A few odds and ends exist as well, but not much. It was left to the MFSL engineers to sort through it all to find which tapes were really masters as opposed to copy tapes since the ABKCO people had no idea and were rather unclear about the whole concept of 'audiophile' recordings to begin with!!

Rehearsal tapes, multitracks of any mono-only LP's, etc are nowhere to be found on these pages. Nor would we have expected to find them, as these items most likely were left at the studios where they were orginally recorded (a situation typical for the times) or in the hands of the Stones themselves. Since they were not master tapes of intended releases, there was no legal obilgation to forward them to a record label or manager. The "Trident Mixes" and Exile material are there most likely as demos for verification of songwriting copyright and were not intended as finished, releasable material. Again, remember that in the 1960's this was standard operating procedure, and no one had any forethought of CD retrospective boxed sets in the 21st century.

Wow, thanks for posting. Do you have any more details about the digital transfers? We were told by Gregg Schnitzer that they were done somewhat under the table, while the tapes were on site for the LPs.

As far as multitracks go, somebody once told me that some were in Universal's vault years ago, and ABKCO clearly has access to some now. Sympathy For the Devil was remixed to 5.1, and I'm Free has been remixed for use in commercials, presumably from the 3-track tape. Additionally, Good Times and Think were remixed (with additional overdubs) for Necrophilia.

Quote
thkbeercan
technically, binaural recording is a one position mike recording with 2 mike heads, kind of like a human head with 2 ears....it gives spatial ambiance but not much in the way of instrument separation. "Satifaction" and some of those other songs are not binaural recordings, but rather "ping-pong" stereo, with complete separation of channels and no overlap of instruments or vocals.

FYI, Satisfaction isn't even "binaural" by those terms - it is a left-center-right mix; there is no "hole in the middle".

you are right about Satisfaction, the vocals are centered, however I maintain that none of those early Stones stereo mixes are binaural. The instruments and vocals are too isolated left, right, and in some cases center, but there is no bleed through from one channel to the next, whereas in natural human hearing both ears here some of the same sounds...which is what binaural recording attempts to recreate..

As far as the Stones digital mastering is concerned, MFSL did digital masters of each of the albums found in their audiophile boxed set for ABKCO. (I was not an engineer, nor was I in the A&R department-I was in sales. However, this company had fewer than 20 employees and when the original company folded in 1999, I was the executive vice-president. Few secrets, if any, were kept from me. I ended up buying the corporate assets from the federal bankruptcy court and sold the name, trademark and technology to its current owners...but that's another story.)
Part of the deal struck with ABKCO was that, in addition to being able to license the Stones material for a boxed set, MFSL would provide ABKCO with digital masters they could use for their own CD's...This was in 1983-84 and 'digital' was a buzzword throughout the industry-everyone wanted to produce CD's, and getting free, high quality CD mastering was a bonus for ABKCO. MFSL was a privately held corporation, and the majority stockholder-the president-did as he pleased and was not bound to consult with or obtain permission from any other employee, engineers included, about the licensing deals he struck with anyone. It is possible that MFSL engineers were not privy to all the details of the ABKCO agreement, but the fact remains that digital masters were made and provided to ABKCO. The only difference in any of these digital masters was the Hot Rocks title which featured stereo mixes that ABKCO had refused to allow MFSL to use on its own audiophile LP's.
Just for the record- although I never had any dealings with any AKBCO people during my tenure at MFSL, my colleagues who DID engage with them said their dealings were always business-like, friendly and cordial....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-05 08:07 by thkbeercan.

Quote
72stones
On another completely different point, Mick and Keith themselves have to have stashes of tapes from the '60s in their own possession as well.

The Stones did provide some masters for the SACD's. I do not know which tracks.

One last thing...these pages are 95% Rolling Stones material but there are a couple of Stones related items, like Andrew Loog Oldham productions, Bill Wyman projects, some film soundtracks, etc. Plus an odd listing here and there for things which got typed in because the typist, for some reason, put them there...one ought be able to tell which of these are NOT Stones items...

Quote
Gazza
Great stuff. Thanks sssoul and thkbeercan. Keep 'em comin'.

Intrigued by the 'unreleased Jagger Indian Music'. Never heard of that one before.

Would it be possible to repost 011? The info at the bottom is faded (it may be part 1 of 4 of More Hot Rocks, going by what it says on 012

That's the way it looks on my sheets, there doesn't appear to have been anything typed in...

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
What are those titles at the top of Page 18 ? At first I thought this is early stuff; maybe ALO Orchestra. Or some of those "Waving Hair" type medleys. But albums seem ROUGHLY grouped together, and those titles fall in between "Buttons" and "Banquet".

Good to see Bill's Black Box making the stand one more time.

This is a pretty incredible posting from Beercan; started out so quietly.

The top title on page 18 is an album called "Rock-O-Rama", I have no idea why ABKCO had that mixed in with the Stones material, but there it is...obviously some other master they own but in no way related to the Stones stuff...

Quote
drbryant

Quote
thkbeercan
As I said, I worked for Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab for 20 years. During that time, MFSL issued "Sticky Fingers" and "Some Girls" as well, so we had the unique opportunity of dealing on both sides of the Rolling Stones fence, so to speak.

What happened with Sticky Fingers - that one doesn't sound right at all?

Do you mean the audiophile quality of the recording doesn't sound right?
There was a lot of distortion on some of those tracks...MFSL put a disclaimer sticker on the front of the LP's to let people know that it was not the fault of the mastering which made the record sound like that...

From Abkco Label Album Discography by Mike Callahan, David Edwards, and Patrice Eyries

AB 4223 - Rock-O-Rama, Volume 2 - Various Artists [1972] (2-LP set) All tracks are mono. Wildwood Days - Bobby Rydell/Hully Gully Baby - Dovells/Goodnight My Love - Tymes/Don't Hang Up - Orlons/He's So Fine - Dee Dee Sharp/Pony Time - Chubby Checker/Monster Mash - Zacherle/Baby Work Out - Dovells/The 81 - Candy & The Kisses/Fabulous - Charlie Grace/Not Me - Orlons/The Cha Cha Cha - Bobby Rydell/Do The Bird - Dee Dee Sharp/Dinner With Drac - Zacherle/Limbo Rock - Chubby Checker/I Need Somebody - ? & The Msterians/Girl From Woverton Mountain - Jo Ann Campbell/8 Teen - ? & The Mysterians/12th Of Never - Tymes/Popeye Waddle - Don Convay

Page 18 list the stereo tracks for the 2nd of the 2 lps. No Stones on Rock-O-Rama Vol.1 either.
Next Catalog # AB 4224 Necrophilia

And another revelation. Aladdin Story is down on these reference sheets as Aladdin Stomp so that's one title that will need revising.

And what are Panama Powder Room and Goodzi? Anyone know?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-05 09:58 by Silver Dagger.

Just some comments and questions from the beginning of this thread. Those pages have distracted me plenty......

thkbeercan
"In addition to ABKCO retaining ownership of Decca/London material performance rights (the actual performances as heard on record) AND publishing copyrights on Jagger-Richards songs written thru 1970 (the end of their Decca/London contract AND the end of their managerial arrangement with Allen Klein)"

comment
The end of the contract with Klein was in 74. So the slutting of the catalog should had stopped there. Yet these War-WHOREses trickle out to 81-82. Jagger went to court in 84 to get regular payments on royalties he was stinging on and put a stop to those collections.

thkbeercan
"ABKCO was/is prohibited from altering the "artistic integrity" of the original releases, whether LP, EP or single. Such bonuses can appear on ABKCO's own creations (a la Hot Rocks, More Hot Rocks) but not on albums in their original form...which is why their CD re-issue program of a few years back was such a hogde-podge...attempting to be comprehensive, but unable to be thoroughly so."

2 questions: First, is this why they can use a different Satisfaction stereo mix for the Hot Rocks SACD and the normal mono mix on Out Of Our Heads? Second, Since all SACD instances of Ruby Tuesday are using a different mix with missing vocals in the chorus, is that techically an alteration of "artistic integrity"?

Gazza
"Klein passed on the running of ABKCO to his son Jody several years ago, so his death isnt going to make any difference. That said, there appear to be some moves afoot to release some unreleased material (an expanded Ya-Ya's for example) so it does appear that maybe there's been a thaw in relations in recent months, unconnected to the old man's demise."

comment
I'm thinking that thaw may have started with the Stones cooperating with some masters for the SACD project. Abkco might have froze it back up with a CD release of Rolled Gold. I'm confused as to how this got released...???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-05 10:06 by nick.

>> And another revelation. Aladdin Story is down on these reference sheets as Aladdin Stomp
so that's one title that will need revising. <<

smile: i like Aladdin Stomp too, but there are pretty many minor errors/typos in these sheets
so i'm not sure we can assume Stomp is more accurate than Story.
maybe they're just different efforts to decipher some ambiguous handwriting?

>> And what are Panama Powder Room and Goodzi? Anyone know? <<

Nico's got those listed in august 1966 as an unverified instrumentals.
(note that Goodzi is also listed as Godzi)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-05 10:25 by with sssoul.

Another point, I think, that is worth raising is the source of many of the Stones outtakes we have come to love over the years. Since the 80s the quality of some of these outtakes and alt versions - the Let It Bleed/Trident Sessions is an obvious starting point - has become so good as to be deemed second generation.

The origin of the incredible Beatles' outtakes and Abbey Road archivist John Barrett is well documented but I don't recall ever having read about the 'liberation' of the Stones material.

The quality of some of the latest boots such as the 3 disc set Through The Vaults Darkly and Got To Be Worked On is so good that they obviously came from first hand sources....perhaps from someone in ABCKO?

interesting reading - thank you.

thanks for this !!!!!!!!!

Quote
Silver Dagger
And another revelation. Aladdin Story is down on these reference sheets as Aladdin Stomp so that's one title that will need revising.

And what are Panama Powder Room and Goodzi? Anyone know?

A. I wonder which rocks harder: Goodzi or Godzi

B. I was so hoping that Dinner With Drac was a lost Stones Halloween song



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-05 18:07 by cbtaco19.

Quote
nick
Just some comments and questions from the beginning of this thread. Those pages have distracted me plenty......

thkbeercan
"In addition to ABKCO retaining ownership of Decca/London material performance rights (the actual performances as heard on record) AND publishing copyrights on Jagger-Richards songs written thru 1970 (the end of their Decca/London contract AND the end of their managerial arrangement with Allen Klein)"

comment
The end of the contract with Klein was in 74. So the slutting of the catalog should had stopped there. Yet these War-WHOREses trickle out to 81-82. Jagger went to court in 84 to get regular payments on royalties he was stinging on and put a stop to those collections.



thkbeercan
"ABKCO was/is prohibited from altering the "artistic integrity" of the original releases, whether LP, EP or single. Such bonuses can appear on ABKCO's own creations (a la Hot Rocks, More Hot Rocks) but not on albums in their original form...which is why their CD re-issue program of a few years back was such a hogde-podge...attempting to be comprehensive, but unable to be thoroughly so."

2 questions: First, is this why they can use a different Satisfaction stereo mix for the Hot Rocks SACD and the normal mono mix on Out Of Our Heads? Second, Since all SACD instances of Ruby Tuesday are using a different mix with missing vocals in the chorus, is that techically an alteration of "artistic integrity"?


Gazza
"Klein passed on the running of ABKCO to his son Jody several years ago, so his death isnt going to make any difference. That said, there appear to be some moves afoot to release some unreleased material (an expanded Ya-Ya's for example) so it does appear that maybe there's been a thaw in relations in recent months, unconnected to the old man's demise."

comment
I'm thinking that thaw may have started with the Stones cooperating with some masters for the SACD project. Abkco might have froze it back up with a CD release of Rolled Gold. I'm confused as to how this got released...???

regarding the end of Klein's management period:

Squabbles and lawsuits may have raged thru the early 1970's, but Allen Klein was definitely NOT their manager as they toured Britain, the US, Australia, Europe, in the early 70's. If he HAD been, he would have had a legal recourse to get a restraining order to prevent the issue of "Sticky Fingers", "Exile" and the rest. He DID, in fact, get a restraining order to prevent Atlantic (the distribution arm of Rolling Stone Records in those days) from distributing a greatest hits collection of their own and issued "Hot Rocks" as a result. This "greatest hits" collection disagreement was the beginning of the unravelling of the complicated and unfortunate situation wherein the Stones realized they did not own their own material...the situation is made more complex when the songwriting royalties are involved. Although the Stones recorded Exile on their own label, a lot of the songs had their beginnings in 1969 when Klein WAS their manager, so ABKCO got the music publishing rights for a lot of those songs, but ABKCO does not own the "performance" rights (the rights to their issuance as sound recordings).

as far as 'artistic integrity' goes:

Well, let's consider the fact that in some cases, an "album" may have had several different forms- a mono 14 track UK version, a stereo 14 track UK version, a mono 12 track US version and a 12 track stereo US version-and some of the tracks may have been also issued as singles. Which is the 'real' version? There is no answer to that question...consequently there is some gray area to move around in. Some differences (ie, which "Ruby Tuesday" ought to be used in a CD) would legally be considered 'slight' and not a violation of 'artistic integrity'. However, putting "Jumping Jack Flash"as a track on "Beggar's Banquet" would be...

regarding the possibility of a thaw in relations so new stuff can be issued:

Allen Klein himself commented upon the issuance of "40 Licks" that the Stones came to ABKCO and asked them to "square the circle" thus combining for the first time material from both ownership camps. When ABKCO issued box #3 of the Rolling Stones CD singles, "Brown Sugar" had "Bitch" on the reverse side and "Wild Horses" had the (album version) of "Sway". This was the first time (and probably the last) that these tracks had appeared on any ABKCO release. My guess is, this was a concession made by the Stones (along with others) as part of the "40 Licks" agreement.
As time passes, wounds heal...Who knows what lies ahead, but I ain't holding my breath for any major changes in the releases as we know them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-05 22:28 by thkbeercan.

Quote
nick
Just some comments and questions from the beginning of this thread. Those pages
I'm thinking that thaw may have started with the Stones cooperating with some masters for the SACD project. Abkco might have froze it back up with a CD release of Rolled Gold. I'm confused as to how this got released...???

"Rolled Gold" was originally issued in 1975 on Decca. Technically, ABKCO can re-release any title that was issued by Decca. Yes, they expanded it (and used a crappy cover instead of the original artwork), but it's got all the titles that were on the original issue, so....

If ABKCO so desired, they could re-issue all those Decca cash in albums from the 70's, and nobody could say boo...

Quote
brokenhands

Quote
nick
Just some comments and questions from the beginning of this thread. Those pages
I'm thinking that thaw may have started with the Stones cooperating with some masters for the SACD project. Abkco might have froze it back up with a CD release of Rolled Gold. I'm confused as to how this got released...???

"Rolled Gold" was originally issued in 1975 on Decca. Technically, ABKCO can re-release any title that was issued by Decca. Yes, they expanded it (and used a crappy cover instead of the original artwork), but it's got all the titles that were on the original issue, so....

If ABKCO so desired, they could re-issue all those Decca cash in albums from the 70's, and nobody could say boo...

But is it the case that they cannot release a NEW compilation album with a fresh name (since 1984 or so)? So they need to do 'tricks' with the albums Decca release prior that date if they want to sell a 'new' product? A 'legendary' STONE AGE with, say, two bonus CDs? Or did I grasp something wrong?

This is an INCREDIBLE thread indeed!

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-05 23:20 by Doxa.

I have always considered "Godzi" and "Panama Powder Room" as pretty verified. They were part of Bill Wyman's proposed Black Box; what "Metamorphosis" was really supposed to be.I I assume they exist, and are more than a non descript jam.

Quote
thkbeercan
you are right about Satisfaction, the vocals are centered, however I maintain that none of those early Stones stereo mixes are binaural. The instruments and vocals are too isolated left, right, and in some cases center, but there is no bleed through from one channel to the next, whereas in natural human hearing both ears here some of the same sounds...which is what binaural recording attempts to recreate..

Right. My point though, was that there were not "binaural" in the sense that many people use the term either. That is, twin-track, a la The Beatles' first two albums. I'm not saying it is correct, but "binaural" is often a term used for twin-track. Which Satisfaction is *not*...

Quote
thkbeercan
As far as the Stones digital mastering is concerned, MFSL did digital masters of each of the albums found in their audiophile boxed set for ABKCO. (I was not an engineer, nor was I in the A&R department-I was in sales. However, this company had fewer than 20 employees and when the original company folded in 1999, I was the executive vice-president. Few secrets, if any, were kept from me. I ended up buying the corporate assets from the federal bankruptcy court and sold the name, trademark and technology to its current owners...but that's another story.)
Part of the deal struck with ABKCO was that, in addition to being able to license the Stones material for a boxed set, MFSL would provide ABKCO with digital masters they could use for their own CD's...This was in 1983-84 and 'digital' was a buzzword throughout the industry-everyone wanted to produce CD's, and getting free, high quality CD mastering was a bonus for ABKCO. MFSL was a privately held corporation, and the majority stockholder-the president-did as he pleased and was not bound to consult with or obtain permission from any other employee, engineers included, about the licensing deals he struck with anyone. It is possible that MFSL engineers were not privy to all the details of the ABKCO agreement, but the fact remains that digital masters were made and provided to ABKCO. The only difference in any of these digital masters was the Hot Rocks title which featured stereo mixes that ABKCO had refused to allow MFSL to use on its own audiophile LP's.

Interesting. This is what we were told...perhaps it will ring some bells:

Quote
Gregg Schnitzer
Life is indeed funny. Now, twenty years later, I finally know what happened. I developed a heart problem while working at MFSL. The first incident was right after the first cassette production run when 10,000 pieces were manufactured in real time with the right/left channels reversed. I had proofed the entire system and gave it the green light.

In the bloody meeting that followed the discovery of this gaff, Gary Giorgi admitted that he had come in after hours the night before the production run. He said that he had to do some analog to digital transfers and figured that this would be the best time to do it as everything was calibrated to a razor's edge. When he finished his dupes he reconnected the digital mastering machine with right/left reversed (accidentally).

That was at the same time as the Rolling Stones masters were in house and this transfer was done in the dupe facility and not in the mastering suite. So, all that could've been done was a direct transfer. All of the Stones master tapes were in his office the next morning and when I inquired as to why they weren't in the vault he replied that he was packing them for return to Europe.

Have all of the tape sheets been posted yet? I'm wondering where those stereo tracks came from.

Ok, I see all of the sheets have been posted. Some more random thoughts...:

- I'm struck by how many 7.5 IPS tapes there apparently were. Odd that there were any, since studio masters are almost always 15 IPS (or sometimes 30 IPS). So those were copies made for unknown reasons.

- There's no clear indication where the stereo mixes of Satisfaction/Play With Fire/Get Off Of My Cloud came from. Or any indication of other stereo tracks (The Last Time/19th Nervous Breakdown/Have You Seen Your Mother).

- It seems clear these were the tapes ABKCO considered "masters" and didn't include any session tapes. Exactly what they had/have is unclear, but we know they had *some* multitrack session tapes over the years, per my note above.

All very fascinating...

Quote
lukpac

Quote
thkbeercan
you are right about Satisfaction, the vocals are centered, however I maintain that none of those early Stones stereo mixes are binaural. The instruments and vocals are too isolated left, right, and in some cases center, but there is no bleed through from one channel to the next, whereas in natural human hearing both ears here some of the same sounds...which is what binaural recording attempts to recreate..

Right. My point though, was that there were not "binaural" in the sense that many people use the term either. That is, twin-track, a la The Beatles' first two albums. I'm not saying it is correct, but "binaural" is often a term used for twin-track. Which Satisfaction is *not*...

Quote
thkbeercan
As far as the Stones digital mastering is concerned, MFSL did digital masters of each of the albums found in their audiophile boxed set for ABKCO. (I was not an engineer, nor was I in the A&R department-I was in sales. However, this company had fewer than 20 employees and when the original company folded in 1999, I was the executive vice-president. Few secrets, if any, were kept from me. I ended up buying the corporate assets from the federal bankruptcy court and sold the name, trademark and technology to its current owners...but that's another story.)
Part of the deal struck with ABKCO was that, in addition to being able to license the Stones material for a boxed set, MFSL would provide ABKCO with digital masters they could use for their own CD's...This was in 1983-84 and 'digital' was a buzzword throughout the industry-everyone wanted to produce CD's, and getting free, high quality CD mastering was a bonus for ABKCO. MFSL was a privately held corporation, and the majority stockholder-the president-did as he pleased and was not bound to consult with or obtain permission from any other employee, engineers included, about the licensing deals he struck with anyone. It is possible that MFSL engineers were not privy to all the details of the ABKCO agreement, but the fact remains that digital masters were made and provided to ABKCO. The only difference in any of these digital masters was the Hot Rocks title which featured stereo mixes that ABKCO had refused to allow MFSL to use on its own audiophile LP's.

Interesting. This is what we were told...perhaps it will ring some bells:

Quote
Gregg Schnitzer
Life is indeed funny. Now, twenty years later, I finally know what happened. I developed a heart problem while working at MFSL. The first incident was right after the first cassette production run when 10,000 pieces were manufactured in real time with the right/left channels reversed. I had proofed the entire system and gave it the green light.

In the bloody meeting that followed the discovery of this gaff, Gary Giorgi admitted that he had come in after hours the night before the production run. He said that he had to do some analog to digital transfers and figured that this would be the best time to do it as everything was calibrated to a razor's edge. When he finished his dupes he reconnected the digital mastering machine with right/left reversed (accidentally).

That was at the same time as the Rolling Stones masters were in house and this transfer was done in the dupe facility and not in the mastering suite. So, all that could've been done was a direct transfer. All of the Stones master tapes were in his office the next morning and when I inquired as to why they weren't in the vault he replied that he was packing them for return to Europe.

Have all of the tape sheets been posted yet? I'm wondering where those stereo tracks came from.

My goodness, what a trip down memory lane...Gary Giorgi was the man who originally hired me for my position at that company. Sadly, he died suddenly and at a young age in 1984 or 85....At any rate, Mr.Schnitzer's recollections I am sure are correct...he seems to indicate that it was Mr. Giorgi who did the transfer for ABKCO (if i read his statement correctly) which is entirely possible.
Mr. Giorgi, however, was not the president of the firm nor was he the dealmaker with ABKCO. But he was head of engineering (or something to that effect). He obviously did not tell his staff what was up with the Stones masters, but that doesn't surprise me, as there was more drama at that company than on a daytime soap opera. All of my information was obtained from the head of licensing, the former head of sales (my predecessor) and the company president himself.

As far as the stereo tracks and other questions about what might be missing from the lists I have, all I can say is that MFSL was only looking for LP masters for the 11 albums which were going to be included in our boxed set. Thus, multitracks, masters of singles, dupe tapes, copy tapes, etc, were of no interest to us. It is entirely possible that other lists of tapes in ABKCO's possession were not provided to us. As I stated earlier, during this whole process, the tapes for "Rock And Roll Circus" were brought to MFSL for sonic evaluation. These were never part of the plan for the audiophile LP set-and they appear nowhere on the 21 page list printed above. Yet ABKCO clearly had them in their possession. Go figure...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-06 08:17 by thkbeercan.