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Yes, thats pretty accurate. It should be noted that even the Stones cant release unreleased 60s stuff because the tapes legally belong to ABKCO.
Basically the situation is that ABKCO legally owns the tapes, but cant release them without the artists (= the Stones) permission. And the Stones cant release them themselves because the tapes are legally owned by ABKCO.
To take it one step further, releasing Stones BBC material is even more complicated: These tapes are legally owned by the BBC, but fall under the ABKCO contract because of the time period they were recorded. So in this case three parties would have to agree a release. It must be said however, that getting the OK from the BBC would be the easiest part!
So who has the multi-track tapes from the '63-'68 era (the Brian Jones era, let's say)? ABKCO? The Stones? Oldham? If someone wanted to do a Mark Lewishan/Beatles recording sessions book on the Stones, who do they go to first? Or is it just too confusing and mixed up to even try and start?
How do I know this stuff?
As I said, I worked for Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab for 20 years. During that time, MFSL issued "Sticky Fingers" and "Some Girls" as well, so we had the unique opportunity of dealing on both sides of the Rolling Stones fence, so to speak.
The Stones recorded their material in a variety of studios and had a succession of management arrangements in the 1960's. Searching for Rolling Stones master tapes was a tedious process which required hours of investigation and questioning of Allen Klein as well as others in the ABKCO organization. Some masters were in the UK, others at ABKCO's offices in NYC. Our access to this material was unprecedented at the time. And not only did MFSL have access to the ABKCO tape library for their own Rolling Stones audiophile Lp boxed set, but we also did the original digital masters for ABKCO which were used for the very first Rolling Stones CD's issued outside the United States...these were identified on the back as being mastered by "Mobile Fidelity Sound". (During the process, the tapes for "Rock and Roll Circus" were brought to us by ABKCO for sonic evaluation.) And, as part of this project, our marketing department interviewed engineers who had worked with the Stones as well.
Most of the details of ABKCO's settlement with the Stones were widely reported in industry trade publications at the time (Billboard, Cashbox, etc.). (One of the items mentioned in these articles was the fact that Mick Jagger had the negotiations FILMED!!) And in any case, the issuance of "Metamorphosis", the TV greatest hits package and "Rock and Roll Circus" is hardly secret knowledge. ABKCO would not have been able to issue these items without them having been part of the agreement.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-02 20:09 by thkbeercan.
I actually toyed with the idea of doing such a project in book form about ten years ago and what you've just said is basically the same as the feedback I got as well. It's an absolute minefield and very difficult to get access to studio logs.
Similar books have been written on Dylan and the Beatles, and its been much easier because so many of the sessions undertaken by those acts were done in a small number of studios (in the case of the Beatles, almost all in one studio and mostly with the same producer/engineers).
In the Stones' case, its a labyrinth by comparison.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-02 20:44 by Gazza.
indeed!
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Klein passed on the running of ABKCO to his son Jody several years ago, so his death isnt going to make any difference.
That said, there appear to be some moves afoot to release some unreleased material (an expanded Ya-Ya's for example) so it does appear that maybe there's been a thaw in relations in recent months, unconnected to the old man's demise.
ok, I am willing to do that, but have never used photobucket or image shack, so I'll have to investigate the process and it will probably take a day or so.
there's a total of 21 pages.
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ABKCO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: July 30, 2009 15:49
One thing I've never understood is why ABCKO as a business has never really taken advantage of the wealth of material lying in the Stones vaults from the 60s. The only decent archive material they've released is Rock And Roll Circus.
Surely they have the rights to issue what they like in much the same way that Decca released all those albums such as Milestones, Stoneage, and Metamorphosis.
Has anyone ever approached them to archive all the Stones material in the same way that Mark Lewisohn logged all the Beatles recordings?
It beggars belief that such a valuable archive lies rotting while there is still a decent enough market for it. As great as The Stones are I can't see there being much interest in archive material being released in say 25 years time after the band have been long dead.
Would the Stones veto such a move to release archive demos and session material as well as any live footage they have such as more film from Madison Sq and Altamont 1969? I doubt it - it's money in the bank and there's enough stuff of sufficient quality to interest the fans at least i.e. alt takes and mixes and live stuff.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-04 10:15 by bv.
Surely they have the rights to issue what they like in much the same way that Decca released all those albums such as Milestones, Stoneage, and Metamorphosis.
Has anyone ever approached them to archive all the Stones material in the same way that Mark Lewisohn logged all the Beatles recordings?
It beggars belief that such a valuable archive lies rotting while there is still a decent enough market for it. As great as The Stones are I can't see there being much interest in archive material being released in say 25 years time after the band have been long dead.
Would the Stones veto such a move to release archive demos and session material as well as any live footage they have such as more film from Madison Sq and Altamont 1969? I doubt it - it's money in the bank and there's enough stuff of sufficient quality to interest the fans at least i.e. alt takes and mixes and live stuff.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-04 10:15 by bv.
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
Nikolai
()
Date: July 30, 2009 16:53
Quote
Silver Dagger
One thing I've never understood is why ABCKO as a business has never really taken advantage of the wealth of material lying in the Stones vaults from the 60s. The only decent archive material they've released is Rock And Roll Circus.
Surely they have the rights to issue what they like in much the same way that Decca released all those albums such as Milestones, Stoneage, and Metamorphosis.
Has anyone ever approached them to archive all the Stones material in the same way that Mark Lewisohn logged all the Beatles recordings?
It beggars belief that such a valuable archive lies rotting while there is still a decent enough market for it. As great as The Stones are I can't see there being much interest in archive material being released in say 25 years time after the band have been long dead.
If they coulda, they woulda, I'm sure.
Would the Stones veto such a move to release archive demos and session material as well as any live footage they have such as more film from Madison Sq and Altamont 1969? I doubt it - it's money in the bank and there's enough stuff of sufficient quality to interest the fans at least i.e. alt takes and mixes and live stuff.
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: July 30, 2009 17:41
Do you mean they should release Milestones and Stone Age? WHY? There is no need for every useless comp ABCKO/Decca/London put out to be reissued on CD!!! They went so far as to reissue Rolled Gold!!!
As laughable as the Rolling Stones/CBS/Virgin Records' era number of comps is, the ABKCO/Decca/London amount is stupefying.
As laughable as the Rolling Stones/CBS/Virgin Records' era number of comps is, the ABKCO/Decca/London amount is stupefying.
Re: ABKCO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: July 30, 2009 17:47
the settlement between the Stones and ABKCO restricted ABKCO's rights to issue previously-unreleased stuff.
anything that goes beyond that original agreement requires new agreements - which are not always easy to achieve.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-04 17:56 by with sssoul.
anything that goes beyond that original agreement requires new agreements - which are not always easy to achieve.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-04 17:56 by with sssoul.
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: July 30, 2009 21:32
Aha. Thanks with sssoul. That answers my question. I guess the band are more interested in going forward than looking back.
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
glencar
()
Date: July 30, 2009 21:38
There's a valuable life lesson in there for all of us!
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
Spodlumt
()
Date: July 31, 2009 00:01
the settlement between the Stones and ABKCO restricted ABKCO's rights to issue previously-unreleased stuff. anything that goes beyond that original agreement requires new agreements - which are not always easy to achieve.
EXPLAIN "METAMORPHOSIS"!!!
EXPLAIN "METAMORPHOSIS"!!!
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
alimente
()
Date: July 31, 2009 00:01
Quote
with sssoul
the settlement between the Stones and ABKCO restricted ABKCO's rights to issue previously-unreleased stuff.
anything that goes beyond that original agreement requires new agreements - which are not always easy to achieve.
Yes, thats pretty accurate. It should be noted that even the Stones cant release unreleased 60s stuff because the tapes legally belong to ABKCO.
Basically the situation is that ABKCO legally owns the tapes, but cant release them without the artists (= the Stones) permission. And the Stones cant release them themselves because the tapes are legally owned by ABKCO.
To take it one step further, releasing Stones BBC material is even more complicated: These tapes are legally owned by the BBC, but fall under the ABKCO contract because of the time period they were recorded. So in this case three parties would have to agree a release. It must be said however, that getting the OK from the BBC would be the easiest part!
Re: ABKCO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: July 31, 2009 00:15
>> EXPLAIN "METAMORPHOSIS"!!! <<
... turn off the caps lock, okay? as i wrote, the agreement *restricted* ABKCO's rights
to issue previously unreleased material - "restricted" means "limited", not "eliminated entirely".
what i've read is that the original agreement was that ABKCO could release
one album's worth of previously unreleased stuff - which turned out to be Metamorphosis;
the Rock & Roll Circus releases were agreed to later. obviously (as i also noted already)
new agreements can be reached - it just isn't always easy. that's no big surprise
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-04 17:56 by with sssoul.
... turn off the caps lock, okay? as i wrote, the agreement *restricted* ABKCO's rights
to issue previously unreleased material - "restricted" means "limited", not "eliminated entirely".
what i've read is that the original agreement was that ABKCO could release
one album's worth of previously unreleased stuff - which turned out to be Metamorphosis;
the Rock & Roll Circus releases were agreed to later. obviously (as i also noted already)
new agreements can be reached - it just isn't always easy. that's no big surprise
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-04 17:56 by with sssoul.
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: July 31, 2009 00:32
If nothing else, the BBC stuff really ought to be out there! There's some really great stuff in those sessions!
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
troubador
()
Date: August 2, 2009 04:05
About time that Abcko released the concerts recorded during the 1972 tour.
I was at the first evening show in Philly in 1972 when the boys came back for the encore with Stevie Wonder and did Satisfaction and Uptight, and when they were done, the announcer came on and said the show had been recorded for a live LP.
We heard later that the show was deep-sixed because it was caught up in the legal morass between the Stones, Atlantic and the Abcko faction. Don't know if that's true, but it's way past time for the labels to get their act together and put out either the historic shows from Philly or Ft. Worth.
I was at the first evening show in Philly in 1972 when the boys came back for the encore with Stevie Wonder and did Satisfaction and Uptight, and when they were done, the announcer came on and said the show had been recorded for a live LP.
We heard later that the show was deep-sixed because it was caught up in the legal morass between the Stones, Atlantic and the Abcko faction. Don't know if that's true, but it's way past time for the labels to get their act together and put out either the historic shows from Philly or Ft. Worth.
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: August 2, 2009 05:52
I remember Jagger's interviews about that fabled live album; how they struggled to release it, but ABCKO would not let go of certain songs. I think YCAGWYW was one of them.
The agreements between ABCKO and Stones, and was is allowed etc - how does one find out about this? Where does one read about that?
The agreements between ABCKO and Stones, and was is allowed etc - how does one find out about this? Where does one read about that?
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
thkbeercan
()
Date: August 2, 2009 06:41
In addition to ABKCO retaining ownership of Decca/London material performance rights (the actual performances as heard on record) AND publishing copyrights on Jagger-Richards songs written thru 1970 (the end of their Decca/London contract AND the end of their managerial arrangement with Allen Klein)
the AKBCO/Stones settlement included the following:
1) ABKCO got the rights to include "Brown Sugar" and "Wild Horses" on compilation albums...these songs, I believe, belong to both parties and each can release them without the other's permission.
2) ABKCO got the right to release an album's worth of unreleased material-this developed into "Metamorphosis"...
3) ABKCO got the right to release the Rock and Roll Circus..although why this took
them so long is unclear....
4) ABKCO got the right to release a 2 disc 'greatest hits' package on LP,8 track and cassette available only through a special TV merchandising campaign-a big deal in those days, but one hardly sees promotions like this anymore...
5) ABKCO was/is prohibited from altering the "artistic integrity" of the original releases, whether LP, EP or single. Such bonuses can appear on ABKCO's own creations (a la Hot Rocks, More Hot Rocks) but not on albums in their original form...which is why their CD re-issue program of a few years back was such a hogde-podge...attempting to be comprehensive, but unable to be thoroughly so.
5) The Stones were prohibited from re-recording any of the ABKCO owned material for release in a sound-recording format (LP/8 track or cassette-this was the 1970's, remember) for a period of 5 years. However, the agreement did not mention film or TV, which is why the 1972 tour spawned the "Ladies and Gentlemen" film, but no tour LP.
I worked for the old Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab for 20 years until it's demise in 1999 (longer than any other living person). When MFSL embarked on its 1984 Stones LP box project, they required original masters with which to work, and got from ABKCO a list of their library of Stones "master" tapes. I still have a copy of this multipage, typewritten document. Included are all the UK and US LP's, singles, EPS, as well as the Hyde Park concert, a master tape for Necrophilia, and a couple of tapes worth of songs which ended up on bootlegs like "The Trident Mixes" and some Exile boots (a lot of those songs were written during the last days of the Klein era.) A few odds and ends exist as well, but not much. It was left to the MFSL engineers to sort through it all to find which tapes were really masters as opposed to copy tapes since the ABKCO people had no idea and were rather unclear about the whole concept of 'audiophile' recordings to begin with!!
Rehearsal tapes, multitracks of any mono-only LP's, etc are nowhere to be found on these pages. Nor would we have expected to find them, as these items most likely were left at the studios where they were orginally recorded (a situation typical for the times) or in the hands of the Stones themselves. Since they were not master tapes of intended releases, there was no legal obilgation to forward them to a record label or manager. The "Trident Mixes" and Exile material are there most likely as demos for verification of songwriting copyright and were not intended as finished, releasable material. Again, remember that in the 1960's this was standard operating procedure, and no one had any forethought of CD retrospective boxed sets in the 21st century.
Sadly, Metamorphosis exists as ABKCO's best, misguided effort at releasing 'high quality' leftovers.
Those expecting a treasure trove of unreleased gems in ABKCO's vaults will be disappointed.
Of course, miracles do happen and perhaps the Stones and ABKCO are beyond recriminations now and willing to work on updating older material..It will be interesting to see how the rumors of an "expanded 40th anniversary Ya-Ya's" pan out.
the AKBCO/Stones settlement included the following:
1) ABKCO got the rights to include "Brown Sugar" and "Wild Horses" on compilation albums...these songs, I believe, belong to both parties and each can release them without the other's permission.
2) ABKCO got the right to release an album's worth of unreleased material-this developed into "Metamorphosis"...
3) ABKCO got the right to release the Rock and Roll Circus..although why this took
them so long is unclear....
4) ABKCO got the right to release a 2 disc 'greatest hits' package on LP,8 track and cassette available only through a special TV merchandising campaign-a big deal in those days, but one hardly sees promotions like this anymore...
5) ABKCO was/is prohibited from altering the "artistic integrity" of the original releases, whether LP, EP or single. Such bonuses can appear on ABKCO's own creations (a la Hot Rocks, More Hot Rocks) but not on albums in their original form...which is why their CD re-issue program of a few years back was such a hogde-podge...attempting to be comprehensive, but unable to be thoroughly so.
5) The Stones were prohibited from re-recording any of the ABKCO owned material for release in a sound-recording format (LP/8 track or cassette-this was the 1970's, remember) for a period of 5 years. However, the agreement did not mention film or TV, which is why the 1972 tour spawned the "Ladies and Gentlemen" film, but no tour LP.
I worked for the old Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab for 20 years until it's demise in 1999 (longer than any other living person). When MFSL embarked on its 1984 Stones LP box project, they required original masters with which to work, and got from ABKCO a list of their library of Stones "master" tapes. I still have a copy of this multipage, typewritten document. Included are all the UK and US LP's, singles, EPS, as well as the Hyde Park concert, a master tape for Necrophilia, and a couple of tapes worth of songs which ended up on bootlegs like "The Trident Mixes" and some Exile boots (a lot of those songs were written during the last days of the Klein era.) A few odds and ends exist as well, but not much. It was left to the MFSL engineers to sort through it all to find which tapes were really masters as opposed to copy tapes since the ABKCO people had no idea and were rather unclear about the whole concept of 'audiophile' recordings to begin with!!
Rehearsal tapes, multitracks of any mono-only LP's, etc are nowhere to be found on these pages. Nor would we have expected to find them, as these items most likely were left at the studios where they were orginally recorded (a situation typical for the times) or in the hands of the Stones themselves. Since they were not master tapes of intended releases, there was no legal obilgation to forward them to a record label or manager. The "Trident Mixes" and Exile material are there most likely as demos for verification of songwriting copyright and were not intended as finished, releasable material. Again, remember that in the 1960's this was standard operating procedure, and no one had any forethought of CD retrospective boxed sets in the 21st century.
Sadly, Metamorphosis exists as ABKCO's best, misguided effort at releasing 'high quality' leftovers.
Those expecting a treasure trove of unreleased gems in ABKCO's vaults will be disappointed.
Of course, miracles do happen and perhaps the Stones and ABKCO are beyond recriminations now and willing to work on updating older material..It will be interesting to see how the rumors of an "expanded 40th anniversary Ya-Ya's" pan out.
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
tomk
()
Date: August 2, 2009 07:38
Quote
thkbeercan
I worked for the old Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab for 20 years until it's demise in 1999 (longer than any other living person). When MFSL embarked on its 1984 Stones LP box project, they required original masters with which to work, and got from ABKCO a list of their library of Stones "master" tapes. I still have a copy of this multipage, typewritten document. Included are all the UK and US LP's, singles, EPS, as well as the Hyde Park concert, a master tape for Necrophilia, and a couple of tapes worth of songs which ended up on bootlegs like "The Trident Mixes" and some Exile boots (a lot of those songs were written during the last days of the Klein era.) A few odds and ends exist as well, but not much. It was left to the MFSL engineers to sort through it all to find which tapes were really masters as opposed to copy tapes since the ABKCO people had no idea and were rather unclear about the whole concept of 'audiophile' recordings to begin with!!
Rehearsal tapes, multitracks of any mono-only LP's, etc are nowhere to be found on these pages. Nor would we have expected to find them, as these items most likely were left at the studios where they were orginally recorded (a situation typical for the times) or in the hands of the Stones themselves. Since they were not master tapes of intended releases, there was no legal obilgation to forward them to a record label or manager. The "Trident Mixes" and Exile material are there most likely as demos for verification of songwriting copyright and were not intended as finished, releasable material. Again, remember that in the 1960's this was standard operating procedure, and no one had any forethought of CD retrospective boxed sets in the 21st century. .
So who has the multi-track tapes from the '63-'68 era (the Brian Jones era, let's say)? ABKCO? The Stones? Oldham? If someone wanted to do a Mark Lewishan/Beatles recording sessions book on the Stones, who do they go to first? Or is it just too confusing and mixed up to even try and start?
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
thkbeercan
()
Date: August 2, 2009 08:38
probably just too confusing/difficult. Since the Stones, unlike the Beatles, recorded their material all over the place, one would have to determine where the recordings occurred and who was the engineer and/or producer. Then, if these people are still alive, question them as to what was recorded, how many times, who played what, etc. Much of the early stuff was mono only, especially the stuff recorded in Britain.
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: August 2, 2009 11:21
>> 3) ABKCO got the right to release the Rock and Roll Circus..although why this took them so long is unclear. <<
thanks for that correction and the other fascinating details, thkbeercan
thanks for that correction and the other fascinating details, thkbeercan
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: August 2, 2009 14:27
LOL, How do you guys know this stuff??
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
thkbeercan
()
Date: August 2, 2009 19:53
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
LOL, How do you guys know this stuff??
How do I know this stuff?
As I said, I worked for Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab for 20 years. During that time, MFSL issued "Sticky Fingers" and "Some Girls" as well, so we had the unique opportunity of dealing on both sides of the Rolling Stones fence, so to speak.
The Stones recorded their material in a variety of studios and had a succession of management arrangements in the 1960's. Searching for Rolling Stones master tapes was a tedious process which required hours of investigation and questioning of Allen Klein as well as others in the ABKCO organization. Some masters were in the UK, others at ABKCO's offices in NYC. Our access to this material was unprecedented at the time. And not only did MFSL have access to the ABKCO tape library for their own Rolling Stones audiophile Lp boxed set, but we also did the original digital masters for ABKCO which were used for the very first Rolling Stones CD's issued outside the United States...these were identified on the back as being mastered by "Mobile Fidelity Sound". (During the process, the tapes for "Rock and Roll Circus" were brought to us by ABKCO for sonic evaluation.) And, as part of this project, our marketing department interviewed engineers who had worked with the Stones as well.
Most of the details of ABKCO's settlement with the Stones were widely reported in industry trade publications at the time (Billboard, Cashbox, etc.). (One of the items mentioned in these articles was the fact that Mick Jagger had the negotiations FILMED!!) And in any case, the issuance of "Metamorphosis", the TV greatest hits package and "Rock and Roll Circus" is hardly secret knowledge. ABKCO would not have been able to issue these items without them having been part of the agreement.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-02 20:09 by thkbeercan.
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: August 2, 2009 20:43
Quote
thkbeercan
probably just too confusing/difficult. Since the Stones, unlike the Beatles, recorded their material all over the place, one would have to determine where the recordings occurred and who was the engineer and/or producer. Then, if these people are still alive, question them as to what was recorded, how many times, who played what, etc. Much of the early stuff was mono only, especially the stuff recorded in Britain.
I actually toyed with the idea of doing such a project in book form about ten years ago and what you've just said is basically the same as the feedback I got as well. It's an absolute minefield and very difficult to get access to studio logs.
Similar books have been written on Dylan and the Beatles, and its been much easier because so many of the sessions undertaken by those acts were done in a small number of studios (in the case of the Beatles, almost all in one studio and mostly with the same producer/engineers).
In the Stones' case, its a labyrinth by comparison.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-02 20:44 by Gazza.
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
thkbeercan
()
Date: August 2, 2009 21:18
Quote
GazzaQuote
thkbeercan
probably just too confusing/difficult. Since the Stones, unlike the Beatles, recorded their material all over the place, one would have to determine where the recordings occurred and who was the engineer and/or producer. Then, if these people are still alive, question them as to what was recorded, how many times, who played what, etc. Much of the early stuff was mono only, especially the stuff recorded in Britain.
I actually toyed with the idea of doing such a project in book form about ten years ago and what you've just said is basically the same as the feedback I got as well. It's an absolute minefield and very difficult to get access to studio logs.
Similar books have been written on Dylan and the Beatles, and its been much easier because so many of the sessions undertaken by those acts were done in a small number of studios (in the case of the Beatles, almost all in one studio and mostly with the same producer/engineers).
In the Stones' case, its a labyrinth by comparison.
indeed!
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults Posted by:
Doctor Dear!
()
Date: August 2, 2009 21:24
The 1969 MSG and Altamont film performances are jointly owned (50-50) by Albert Maysles and the Stones. ABKCO has no claim on their ownership.
And seeing how The Jag skirts away from the bands past, I doubt we will ever see a complete concert film of the '69 tour........
And seeing how The Jag skirts away from the bands past, I doubt we will ever see a complete concert film of the '69 tour........
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
ghostryder13
()
Date: August 3, 2009 13:31
maybe with klein dead there could be a chance of seeing some unreleased stuff
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: August 3, 2009 14:42
Quote
ghostryder13
maybe with klein dead there could be a chance of seeing some unreleased stuff
Klein passed on the running of ABKCO to his son Jody several years ago, so his death isnt going to make any difference.
That said, there appear to be some moves afoot to release some unreleased material (an expanded Ya-Ya's for example) so it does appear that maybe there's been a thaw in relations in recent months, unconnected to the old man's demise.
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
nick
()
Date: August 3, 2009 17:30
A few questions please thkbeercan,
1. Any chance of some scans of those pages you have?
2. Are the original London CD's that came out really mastered by Mobile Fidelity or did they use the logo in error?
3. Is the Satisfaction on the London Hot Rocks 1 CD a "Binuaral" recording as Jody Klein stated and if it is, does that mean Get Off My Cloud and Play With Fire are binaural also?
1. Any chance of some scans of those pages you have?
2. Are the original London CD's that came out really mastered by Mobile Fidelity or did they use the logo in error?
3. Is the Satisfaction on the London Hot Rocks 1 CD a "Binuaral" recording as Jody Klein stated and if it is, does that mean Get Off My Cloud and Play With Fire are binaural also?
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
thkbeercan
()
Date: August 3, 2009 18:28
sure, I can scan them for you. how shall I get them to you?
as far as the question regarding "London" logo CD's...I can not say with certainty how, where or with what logo ABKCO released those early CD's, since MFSL only mastered them-we did not prepare any label art, CD inserts or other notations. (In fact, on the version of Hot Rocks 1, which has stereo versions of so many songs, someone mislabeled as mono and the mono tracks as stereo!). My understanding is that MFSL prepared digital masters for ABKCO for each LP that MFSL used in its Rolling Stones boxed LP set in 1984. ABKCO provided stereo versions of many songs for the Hot Rocks 1 for these digital transfers, versions that they did not allow MFSL to use for the LP set. Without MFSL's knowledge or approval, the "mastered by Mobile Fidelity Sound" was put on the back of these CD's by ABKCO. So I guess the best guide would be:
1) only those albums which also appeared in the audiophile boxed set and
2) only those CD's which have the 'mastered by Mobile Fidelity Sound" on the back inlay.
technically, binaural recording is a one position mike recording with 2 mike heads, kind of like a human head with 2 ears....it gives spatial ambiance but not much in the way of instrument separation. "Satifaction" and some of those other songs are not binaural recordings, but rather "ping-pong" stereo, with complete separation of channels and no overlap of instruments or vocals.
as far as the question regarding "London" logo CD's...I can not say with certainty how, where or with what logo ABKCO released those early CD's, since MFSL only mastered them-we did not prepare any label art, CD inserts or other notations. (In fact, on the version of Hot Rocks 1, which has stereo versions of so many songs, someone mislabeled as mono and the mono tracks as stereo!). My understanding is that MFSL prepared digital masters for ABKCO for each LP that MFSL used in its Rolling Stones boxed LP set in 1984. ABKCO provided stereo versions of many songs for the Hot Rocks 1 for these digital transfers, versions that they did not allow MFSL to use for the LP set. Without MFSL's knowledge or approval, the "mastered by Mobile Fidelity Sound" was put on the back of these CD's by ABKCO. So I guess the best guide would be:
1) only those albums which also appeared in the audiophile boxed set and
2) only those CD's which have the 'mastered by Mobile Fidelity Sound" on the back inlay.
technically, binaural recording is a one position mike recording with 2 mike heads, kind of like a human head with 2 ears....it gives spatial ambiance but not much in the way of instrument separation. "Satifaction" and some of those other songs are not binaural recordings, but rather "ping-pong" stereo, with complete separation of channels and no overlap of instruments or vocals.
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: August 3, 2009 18:40
>> sure, I can scan them for you. how shall I get them to you? <,
wow - excuse me please for butting in at this point, but if you could scan them
and then upload them somewhere like photobucket or image shack
then you could post them here so all of us could ponder them. a lot of us would sure like to, i'm sure!
wow - excuse me please for butting in at this point, but if you could scan them
and then upload them somewhere like photobucket or image shack
then you could post them here so all of us could ponder them. a lot of us would sure like to, i'm sure!
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: August 3, 2009 18:41
"ABKCO got the right to release the Rock and Roll Circus..although why this took
them so long is unclear...."
I recall Keith saying something about the master being found in a wheel barrow in some barn of Stu's a good few years after his death and that is what is out on CD now, that was the master.
How true that is or even if it is a truth or some truth or what it sounds plausible but then again, it's Keith saying something. So either it's true or it's just some simple work of fiction strictly for entertainment and to give it some good copy.
them so long is unclear...."
I recall Keith saying something about the master being found in a wheel barrow in some barn of Stu's a good few years after his death and that is what is out on CD now, that was the master.
How true that is or even if it is a truth or some truth or what it sounds plausible but then again, it's Keith saying something. So either it's true or it's just some simple work of fiction strictly for entertainment and to give it some good copy.
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
WeLoveYou
()
Date: August 3, 2009 19:24
It's true. After Ian died, his wife was sorting out a lot of his stuff and came across the film reels of R&R Circus in the garden shed. The reason Stu had the film reels is because the Stones office moved (not sure when) and they went to smaller premises, which meant that they had to clear out a lot of boxes of various things because there simply wasn't the space in the new office. So I guess Stu took the reels (perhaps among other stuff) and agreed to store them.
Re: ABCKO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
thkbeercan
()
Date: August 3, 2009 19:40
Quote
with sssoul
>> sure, I can scan them for you. how shall I get them to you? <,
wow - excuse me please for butting in at this point, but if you could scan them
and then upload them somewhere like photobucket or image shack
then you could post them here so all of us could ponder them. a lot of us would sure like to, i'm sure!
ok, I am willing to do that, but have never used photobucket or image shack, so I'll have to investigate the process and it will probably take a day or so.
there's a total of 21 pages.
Re: ABKCO and the Stones 60s vaults
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: August 3, 2009 20:16
yayy, thank you for being willing, thkbeercan!
photobucket and image shack are both very easy to use, so ... enjoy investigating them!
then when you've uploaded the scans, you can post them here by typing:
[ IMG ] the_scan's_url [ /IMG ]
in a post, but without the spaces ... hope that makes sense - it's easier to do than to explain :E
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-04 17:57 by with sssoul.
photobucket and image shack are both very easy to use, so ... enjoy investigating them!
then when you've uploaded the scans, you can post them here by typing:
[ IMG ] the_scan's_url [ /IMG ]
in a post, but without the spaces ... hope that makes sense - it's easier to do than to explain :E
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-04 17:57 by with sssoul.
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