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I never knew this about Brian
Posted by: Edith Grove ()
Date: July 8, 2009 02:32

I never knew this about Brian !

**UPDATED with more information & better pic ! **

I think this is interesting enough to warrant it's own thread, especially considering the picture that appears with the article.

The article claims that Brian Jones spent a couple of his pre-Stones years helping to build Crich Tramway Village.

The link below shows an extremely grainy picture supposedly showing Brian hard at work on the Village.

IF ANYBODY HAS A BETTER VERSION OF THIS PICTURE, OR ANY OTHERS OF BRIAN AT CRICH, PLEASE POST THEM HERE!




The Rolling Stone and Crich Trams

Published Date:
07 July 2009
By Laura Hammond
IT was 40 years ago on Friday that infamous Rolling Stone Brian Jones was found dead in the swimming pool at his Sussex home.
Mystery surrounds the life and death of the guitarist, with fans still debating whether he was murdered, he fell during an asthma attack, or if he died from a drink-fuelled overdose of recreational drugs.

In fact, many details remain scarce or unknown about 27-year-old's life, not least the musician's strong connection to Amber Valley.

As the anniversary of Jones's 1969 death arrives, Crich Tramway Village has revealed that he was one of the volunteers who helped to get the attraction off the ground in the early 1960s.

Jones joined others working on the derelict Cliff Quarry, which became the well-known museum.

Before going on to find worldwide fame with the rock band, fronted by Mick Jagger, Jones gave his up Sundays to the Crich project for almost two years, travelling from Cheltenham with friend John Appleby.

The duo were part of a ten-strong group of tram enthuisasts, members of the Tramway Museum Society, who travelled from Cheltenham to ride the vehicles in Sheffield and Leeds.

In a letter from April 1960, which is archived at the museum, a Leeds bus driver, who knew Jones, said: "An 18-year-old who came to Leeds with me last year says he will join 'when he can afford it''.

A spokesman for the museum said he belived the driver was referring to a young and penniless Jones.

The stint ended in 1962, when Jones moved to London to focus on the band.

In an obituary, Mr Appleby said at the time: "Even recently, he asked about the Crich trams and said he would like to come back one day. With his death the world lost a pop star, some of us lost a friend, and Crich lost its Rolling Stone."

Jones was discovered in his swimming pool on July 3, 1969, and was buried seven days later in Cheltenham.

Museum curator Glynn Wilton, said: "Brian Jones and all those volunteers who gave their time and effort in the early years at Crich provided the foundation for what we have today. Looking at today's magnificent museum, we owe a huge debt to those early volunteers who often travelled long distances in all seasons to help."

The musuem will celebrate its 50th birthday this year.

The Rolling Stones were formed 1962 in London when multi-instrumentalist Brian Jones and pianist Ian Stewart were joined by vocalist Mick Jagger and guitarist Keith Richards. Bassist Bill Wyman and drummer Charlie Watts completed the early line-up.

Stewart, deemed unsuitable as a teen idol, was removed from the official lineup in 1963 but continued to work with the band as road manager and keyboardist until his death in 1985.

Early in the band's history, Jagger and Richards formed a songwriting partnership and gradually took over leadership of the band from Jones.

At first the group recorded mainly covers of American blues and R&B songs, but since the 1966 album Aftermath, their releases have mainly featured Jagger/Richards songs. Mick Taylor replaced Jones shortly before Jones's death in 1969.

Hits include Not Fade Away, Satisfaction, It's All Over Now and Little Red Rooster.



See the picture here: [www.belpernews.co.uk]





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-28 21:52 by bv.

Re: I never knew this about Brian !
Posted by: CharliMoon ()
Date: July 8, 2009 02:34

Well, that guy in the picture could be anyone.

Re: I never knew this about Brian !
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: July 8, 2009 02:39



Well it looks like Brian's hay-stack hair-dooo ..........



ROCKMAN

Re: I never knew this about Brian !
Posted by: Edith Grove ()
Date: July 8, 2009 02:44

Quote
CharliMoon
Well, that guy in the picture could be anyone.

Yeah, but fifty years later, I doubt if there is any real advantage for anyone by claiming the guy in the pic is Brian, if it was not really him.


Re: I never knew this about Brian !
Posted by: CharliMoon ()
Date: July 8, 2009 02:47

Quote
Edith Grove
Quote
CharliMoon
Well, that guy in the picture could be anyone.

Yeah, but fifty years later, I doubt if there is any real advantage for anyone by claiming the guy in the pic is Brian, if it was not really him.

Hmm, that's true. And when I think about it, why shouldn't it be him. I mean, actually, why shouldn't he have helped building that.
We'll probably never no for sure.

This is an interesting article, actually.

Re: I never knew this about Brian !
Posted by: CousinC ()
Date: July 8, 2009 03:23

Well, Brian had been crazy for trams and buses!
That's been told in many books, etc.

Just remember that funny story from the Stones' London bureau when they had to get rid of a real old bus that had been ordered by Brian!

Re: I never knew this about Brian !
Date: July 8, 2009 09:50

Hay-stack hair...

smiling bouncing smileysmiling smileygrinning smiley

That's gooood!


Re: I never knew this about Brian !
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: July 8, 2009 10:16

Hey is that you Wanton ????????? cute!!!

But looky here ...... Ain't they Brian??????





ROCKMAN

Re: I never knew this about Brian !
Date: July 8, 2009 10:58

That could be me...

Re: I never knew this about Brian !
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: July 8, 2009 11:04

Well you have a Hay-Stack too ........



ROCKMAN

Re: I never knew this about Brian !
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: July 8, 2009 11:05

>> fifty years later, I doubt if there is any real advantage for anyone by claiming the guy in the pic is Brian, if it was not really him <<

the advantage is getting mentioned in the newspaper - for some people that's motivation enough.
while i agree that there's no reason it couldn't be Brian, that doesn't mean it is him.

and meanwhile, the allegation in the article that his death might have been a drug overdose
suggests that the writer doesn't care whether what she's writing is accurate, so ...

Re: I never knew this about Brian !
Posted by: Edith Grove ()
Date: July 18, 2009 05:20

Hello everyone !

Yesterday, I had the real fortune of being contacted by Chris Gent of The National Tramway Museum. Website: [www.tramway.co.uk]
Mr. Gent has graciously offered much additional information concerning Brian's involvement at Crich, and has allowed me to share our correspondence here.



From Mr. Gent:

Hello Lee,

Re: I never knew this about Brian!

Just seen your comment at www.iorr.org regarding Brian Jones at Crich.

Yes, it's definitely true. I'm the Photographic and Archive Officer at the museum and sent the press release out. The web picture is grainier than our original, but that's not too good either, I'm afraid. It's scanned from the 1969 obituary written by his friend John Appleby and published in the Tramway Museum Society's Journal (the quarterly magazine for the charitable organisation which developed and runs the museum). The original print has annoyingly been lost - probably back in 1969 when it was borrowed by the then Journal editor. John Appleby has also since died, unfortunately.

In the obit, John Appleby writes that he was a friend of the teenage Brian when they both lived in Cheltenham, and he took Brian to Crich with other volunteers on several occasions in 1960/61. They also toured Leeds in 1959 on some of its last trams, and similarly Sheffield in 1960. Interestingly (for us at the museum) they travelled through Sheffield in October 1960 (at the very end of trams there) on tram number 510, which is now part of our collection at Crich.

Yes, almost unbelievable, but true!

Regards,

Chris Gent

www.tramway.co.uk
The Tramway Museum Society, Premises & Registered Office:Crich, Matlock, Derbyshire, DE4 5DP
Incorporated in England with liability limited by guarantee, company no. 744229
Registered as a national charity, charity no. 313615




The obituary written by John Appleby, courtesy of Mr. Gent and The National Tramway Museum:




The second correspondence from Mr. Gent clears up a couple of errors in the original news article. I like the idea described in the last line:


Thanks for your email, Lee.

Yes, please feel free to go ahead and reproduce my email.

I’m also attaching the press release items (including a better scan of the picture that appears on the Belper News website).

The article by Laura Hammond contains a couple of errors:

She suggests Brian gave up all his Sundays for almost two years to help at Crich. There’s no evidence this was the case, and I certainly doubt it very much (none of our present-day volunteers manage that!). In fact, John Appleby’s obituary (attached) simply says Brian visited ‘on several occasions’.

Also, the April 1960 letter mentioned in the article was sent TO the Leeds bus driver by John Appleby and not vice-versa as written (again, detailed in one of the attached items).

Next year will be the 50th anniversary of the picture of Brian (August 1960) and I’m going to suggest to our Board of Management that we erect a suitable information panel – there’s now a conveniently-sited stone wall within feet of where Brian was standing. This is now the tram depot yard area.

Best wishes,

Chris




The press release items, courtesy of Mr. Gent and The National Tramway Museum:


Brian Jones – Rolling Stone – 1942-1969

3 July 2009 will be the 40th anniversary of the death of Brian Jones, the Rolling Stones founder member who died at the age of 27. He was found in his swimming pool, although there is continuing controversy over the actual cause of death.

During the Tramway Museum’s early years he was an active volunteer at Crich.

The attached obituary, by his friend the late John Appleby from Cheltenham (also Brian’s home town), appeared in the Tramway Museum Society’s Journal (the members’ quarterly magazine) in September 1969.

Brian was one of the early volunteers whose efforts at the derelict Cliff Quarry here at Crich laid the foundations for the National Tramway Museum, celebrating its 50th anniversary this year.

Sheffield tram no.510 mentioned is in our collection.

National Tramway Museum
Crich, Derbyshire

17 June 2009


Brian Jones – Rolling Stone founder member

Born 28 February 1942, Cheltenham

Died 3 July 1969, Sussex

Buried 10 July 1969, Cheltenham

First Rolling Stones performance 12 July 1962 at London’s Marquee Club

Brian became an active volunteer at Crich during 1960, travelling with Tramway Museum Society member John Appleby and others from Cheltenham on Sundays.

Presumably, according to John’s obituary, Brian had ceased to visit Crich by the time of the Rolling Stones’ debut in 1962.

There were approximately 10 members of a Cheltenham tram enthusiasts’ group in 1960, according to John Appleby’s notes in the archives at Crich.

John gives no details as to exactly how Brian came to be involved, but the following might help.

Even though Cheltenham’s trams had been long gone by then, John, in a 20 April 1960 letter to Fred Jones (no relation), a Leeds City Transport bus driver who had expressed a wish to become involved at Crich, wrote: ‘It says something for the influence of the tram that it can hold the affection of its fanatics even in far-away tramless wastes like the West Country. But there ARE enthusiasts here, and at Bristol and further south. You cannot imagine how household Leeds destinations have become, even to those who have never been to the city, because of the trams….. I knew all about Swinegate, Briggate, Halton Dial, Wortley, Belle Isle, Lawnswood, Harehills Lane, etc long before my first trip to Leeds last year. Can you imagine young men of 18 – 25 never having seen a tram? Whenever I drive up to Sheffield, there are always one or two who come up for their first experience’.

And then, five days later, writing again to Fred: ‘An 18-year-old who came to Leeds with me last year says he will join [the Tramway Museum Society] ‘when he can afford it’’. I think he’s got to be referring to [penniless!] Brian.

By October 1960, Sheffield’s trams had gone (Leeds had finished by the end of the previous year) – hence the references in the obituary to touring the Leeds Middleton Circular (by special tram) in March 1959 and riding on Sheffield tram no.510 (in October 1960).

As Glynn Wilton, Curator of the National Tramway Museum, Crich, says: ‘Brian Jones and all those volunteers who gave their time and effort in the early years at Crich provided the foundation for what we have today. Remember that when the Tramway Museum Society moved onto the site in 1959, it was a disused quarry and basic facilities had to be quickly created to accommodate the tramcars which would soon arrive in substantial numbers. Looking at today’s magnificent Museum, we owe a huge debt to those early volunteers who often travelled long distances in all seasons to help’.



Information on John Appleby

Born 1929

Died (of cancer) 24 June 1978, aged 48

Director of Appleby and Son Ltd, the family’s wholesale grocery business in Gloucester


Chris Gent
Acting Press Officer
National Tramway Museum
Crich

25 June 2009




I, personally, find this view into Brian's pre-Stones life rather fascinating, and I thank Mr. Gent and The National Tramway Museum for sharing this information with us.

Lee aka Edith Grove


[www.tramway.co.uk]


Re: I never knew this about Brian ! **UPDATED with more information & better pic ! **
Posted by: open-g ()
Date: July 18, 2009 06:04

Well done, Lee!
you really shine a light on Brian.

persistence through email - it's amazing what can be archived.
you're in New Orleans,U.S. and Mr. Gent is in Crich, U.K. right?

thanks to both of you.

Re: I never knew this about Brian ! **UPDATED with more information & better pic ! **
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: July 18, 2009 06:06

Cool work Edith ....... Take a bow ... Take a bow wow wow..!!!!



ROCKMAN

Re: I never knew this about Brian ! **UPDATED with more information & better pic ! **
Posted by: Rolling Hansie ()
Date: July 18, 2009 09:24

Cool story. Nice digging work. Thanks

-------------------
Keep On Rolling smoking smiley

Re: I never knew this about Brian ! **UPDATED with more information & better pic ! **
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: July 18, 2009 09:33

well done indeed, Edith Grove! it all fits together now - way cool!
Laura Hammond (who wrote that error-ridden article in the first post) should take lessons from you :E

and thank you kindly indeed Mr Gent for sharing this with us



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-07-19 08:34 by with sssoul.

Re: I never knew this about Brian ! **UPDATED with more information & better pic ! **
Posted by: Honestman ()
Date: July 18, 2009 10:28

Amazing Story !

Thanks very muchthumbs up

HMN

Re: I never knew this about Brian ! **UPDATED with more information & better pic ! **
Posted by: Beast ()
Date: July 18, 2009 10:29

Great stuff, EG - thanks for digging!

Re: I never knew this about Brian ! **UPDATED with more information & better pic ! **
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: July 18, 2009 11:22

Thank you Edith Grove and Mr Gent!

Re: I never knew this about Brian ! **UPDATED with more information & better pic ! **
Posted by: Edith Grove ()
Date: July 18, 2009 14:12

I appreciate everyone's comments, but Mr. Gent with The National Tramway Museum deserves all of the praise here.

Mr. Gent first contacted me after visiting this thread, and offered the additional information.
After my asking for permission to share that information here, Mr. Gent came back with with the obituary and press releases.

I especially like Mr. Gent's idea for a tribute to Brian.
In case anyone missed it:
"Next year will be the 50th anniversary of the picture of Brian (August 1960) and I’m going to suggest to our Board of Management that we erect a suitable information panel – there’s now a conveniently-sited stone wall within feet of where Brian was standing. This is now the tram depot yard area."

My best wishes go to Mr. Gent in getting that information panel erected.


Re: I never knew this about Brian ! **UPDATED with more information & better pic ! **
Posted by: boston2006 ()
Date: July 19, 2009 00:21

Great Photo .. Nice job Edith !

Re: I never knew this about Brian ! **UPDATED with more information & better pic ! **
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: July 19, 2009 01:00

Excellent research, Edith! That's it, BV is fired - EG is the new leader

Re: I never knew this about Brian ! **UPDATED with more information & better pic ! **
Posted by: CousinC ()
Date: July 19, 2009 01:06

Thanx a lot!

After all these years Brian is still in my heart . .

Re: I never knew this about Brian ! **UPDATED with more information & better pic ! **
Posted by: SwayStones ()
Date: July 20, 2009 17:55

Thanks a lot, Edith !it was a very nice find smiling bouncing smiley



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

Re: I never knew this about Brian ! **UPDATED with more information & better pic ! **
Posted by: Adrian-L ()
Date: July 20, 2009 18:02

nice one Edith

Re: I never knew this about Brian ! **UPDATED with more information & better pic ! **
Posted by: Honestman ()
Date: July 28, 2013 20:04

Maybe another brick in this wall Edith see below



HMN

Re: I never knew this about Brian ! **UPDATED with more information & better pic ! **
Posted by: Zagalo ()
Date: July 28, 2013 21:19

Very interesting - thanks to all.

Re: I never knew this about Brian ! **UPDATED with more information & better pic ! **
Posted by: Honestman ()
Date: July 29, 2013 18:49

Quote
Zagalo
Very interesting - thanks to all.

And thanks to you Zagalo to be with the few that find it interesting winking smiley

HMN

Re: I never knew this about Brian ! **UPDATED with more information & better pic ! **
Posted by: MILKYWAY ()
Date: July 29, 2013 21:37

Nothing like bumpin' four year old threads, eh cap'n? >grinning smiley<


Re: I never knew this about Brian ! **UPDATED with more information & better pic ! **
Posted by: Rolling Hansie ()
Date: July 29, 2013 21:40

Quote
Honestman
Maybe another brick in this wall

And what would that brick be ?

-------------------
Keep On Rolling smoking smiley

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