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A too obvious reference would had been less funny and interesting...
About this cover, Jagger once said:"I challenge anybody to find any cock or sexual reference on this artwork..." He had good reasons to say that!
Even now most people don't see the hint...
I had the impression that some around here see a leading figur of the Third Reich in her who should have been put on trial in Nuremberg, sitting next to Göring and the others. She didn't do her any favour to "excuse" her involvement by her behaviour, that's right. But: Most of her generation just gave the easy answer: I was at the wrong time in the wrong place.
I respectfully disagree. IORR always seemed a little detached and bland to me, hardly funny or interesting compared to Ya-Ya's or Through the Past, etc.
Since Sticky Fingers, I think ALL their covers-would be better in black and white!
You have an awesome point here. Via dei Fori Imperiali, that's how it's called, is a very controversial topic in Rome.
As far as I know in order to build it they destroyed houses from the middle-ages, not from ancient Rome.
As you may know, after the fall of the Roman Empire, in 476 AD, the city was pillaged by barbarians, it's ruins recycled by locals to build houses, farms and any other kind of structure marble and tufa stone could be used for.
Those locals didn't hesitate a second to build houses in historical buildings, and sure couldn't care less to have a pig-pen next to the Colosseum, so a whole new city developed around and between the old one.
Sure as hell Mussolini shoulda gave a 2nd thought about the Via dei Fori Imperiali but the city really needed a road for inner traffic and, at least, they built a very scenic one.
Beside this fact reporting, everyone, of course, is entitled to his own opinion.
I believe this is another Guy Paelart (spelling?).
looks like Keith has a mustache -- Keith as @#$%&??
Is his 'stache modelled after @#$%& or just an early version of his ugly 2007 'stache??!!
p
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-03 03:01 by timbernardis.
There was a thread on Guy Peelaert's passing on these pages a little while ago:
[www.iorr.org]
As for Keith and Brians "fondness" for Nazi styling, I'm not so sure although it is true that Brian was photographed in a Nazi uniform (by Anita Pallenberg?) which was widely misconstrued:
I think it was intended to be an anti-fascist statement.
"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"
Yeah right. It's amazing how many of the Germans *after* the war claimed to hate @#$%&...the same way so many French were all of a sudden members of the resistance after the war and not collaborating via Vichy France...
Why did Mick even take pics with her?
That Dylan show was fantastic (as was that entire European tour in '78 - arguably his finest ever series of shows). He introduced 'Masters of War'by saying "It gives me great pleasure to sing it in this place!"
Really? I thought I read in a page that used to be on the internet and which listed official audience figures for Stones shows that Roundhay Park, Leeds in 1982 had about 120,000 attendees.
I'd have thought Strahov Stadium in Prague 1990 would have had even higher than that figure as well.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-08 18:23 by Gazza.
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Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
timbernardis
()
Date: April 1, 2009 17:01
but think about the end purposes of her film and the uses to which it was put, not so much whether she was directing them or just recording their event.
p
p
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
mitch
()
Date: April 1, 2009 17:11
Quote
loog droog
It's too bad Peelaert didn't quote from this photo more directly, instead of putting that Maxfield Parish fantasy layer on it.
Imagine a grittier, b&w painting, with four tongue logos in the background.
A too obvious reference would had been less funny and interesting...
About this cover, Jagger once said:"I challenge anybody to find any cock or sexual reference on this artwork..." He had good reasons to say that!
Even now most people don't see the hint...
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
JJHMick
()
Date: April 1, 2009 17:58
Quote
timbernardis
but think about the end purposes of her film and the uses to which it was put, not so much whether she was directing them or just recording their event.
p
I had the impression that some around here see a leading figur of the Third Reich in her who should have been put on trial in Nuremberg, sitting next to Göring and the others. She didn't do her any favour to "excuse" her involvement by her behaviour, that's right. But: Most of her generation just gave the easy answer: I was at the wrong time in the wrong place.
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
JJHMick
()
Date: April 1, 2009 18:06
Finally, the grandstand is now hosting more than 100,000 motorsport fans once a year (3-5 July).
For some today's pictures (and pictures without Nazis but happy democrats only in it) of the area check:
www.norisringhistorie.de or
www.the-fastlane.co.uk/racingcircuits - go to Germany - then Norisring - check the two photo galleries.
For some today's pictures (and pictures without Nazis but happy democrats only in it) of the area check:
www.norisringhistorie.de or
www.the-fastlane.co.uk/racingcircuits - go to Germany - then Norisring - check the two photo galleries.
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
timbernardis
()
Date: April 1, 2009 18:31
it was in fact run by the US military for years for some purpose and right, now auto racing. In fact, a small book is on sale at the Documentation Center there about the history of the site more or less up to the present day.
I have it at home, would have to check.
Interestingly, when I asked a young German man there some question on the grounds, he said something to me like 'everyone thinks all Germans are Nazis', 'we're not Nazis today', that kinda thing. Meaning the present day.
p
I have it at home, would have to check.
Interestingly, when I asked a young German man there some question on the grounds, he said something to me like 'everyone thinks all Germans are Nazis', 'we're not Nazis today', that kinda thing. Meaning the present day.
p
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: April 1, 2009 21:14
when ever you get a chance , i would love to see your photos from your visit in 2007.one of these days i want to go to berlin and see all the cultural and historic places that germany is so rich in .Quote
timbernardis
it was in fact run by the US military for years for some purpose and right, now auto racing. In fact, a small book is on sale at the Documentation Center there about the history of the site more or less up to the present day.
I have it at home, would have to check.
Interestingly, when I asked a young German man there some question on the grounds, he said something to me like 'everyone thinks all Germans are Nazis', 'we're not Nazis today', that kinda thing. Meaning the present day.
p
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
loog droog
()
Date: April 2, 2009 01:14
Quote
mitchQuote
loog droog
It's too bad Peelaert didn't quote from this photo more directly, instead of putting that Maxfield Parish fantasy layer on it.
Imagine a grittier, b&w painting, with four tongue logos in the background.
A too obvious reference would had been less funny and interesting...
I respectfully disagree. IORR always seemed a little detached and bland to me, hardly funny or interesting compared to Ya-Ya's or Through the Past, etc.
Since Sticky Fingers, I think ALL their covers-would be better in black and white!
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
timbernardis
()
Date: April 2, 2009 04:19
Quote
The Greekwhen ever you get a chance , i would love to see your photos from your visit in 2007.one of these days i want to go to berlin and see all the cultural and historic places that germany is so rich in .Quote
timbernardis
it was in fact run by the US military for years for some purpose and right, now auto racing. In fact, a small book is on sale at the Documentation Center there about the history of the site more or less up to the present day.
I have it at home, would have to check.
Interestingly, when I asked a young German man there some question on the grounds, he said something to me like 'everyone thinks all Germans are Nazis', 'we're not Nazis today', that kinda thing. Meaning the present day.
You will get your wish. Just wait a bit.
p
p
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
dunhill
()
Date: April 2, 2009 11:33
Tim, cool how this topic is turning out.Quote
timbernardis
dunhill: yes we do want to preserve these buildings, but one historical note about Mussolini's attempt to create a "new" Rome somewhat along the lines of ancient Rome is that, for example, his rerouting of the wide avenue that runs near the ancient Colosseum, in the process of its construction, destroyed some ancient archeologial sites connected to ancient Rome/the ancient forum and I think the same can be said of the construction of the gleaming white monument of the Temple of Victor Emmanuel (Monumento Nazionale a Vittorio Emanuele II )which was built right on top of the ancient Capitoline Hill -- bad choices, what a loss.
You have an awesome point here. Via dei Fori Imperiali, that's how it's called, is a very controversial topic in Rome.
As far as I know in order to build it they destroyed houses from the middle-ages, not from ancient Rome.
As you may know, after the fall of the Roman Empire, in 476 AD, the city was pillaged by barbarians, it's ruins recycled by locals to build houses, farms and any other kind of structure marble and tufa stone could be used for.
Those locals didn't hesitate a second to build houses in historical buildings, and sure couldn't care less to have a pig-pen next to the Colosseum, so a whole new city developed around and between the old one.
Sure as hell Mussolini shoulda gave a 2nd thought about the Via dei Fori Imperiali but the city really needed a road for inner traffic and, at least, they built a very scenic one.
Beside this fact reporting, everyone, of course, is entitled to his own opinion.
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
timbernardis
()
Date: April 2, 2009 16:51
I believe this is another Guy Paelart (spelling?).
looks like Keith has a mustache -- Keith as @#$%&??
Is his 'stache modelled after @#$%& or just an early version of his ugly 2007 'stache??!!
p
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-03 03:01 by timbernardis.
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: April 2, 2009 18:00
did i not read an above post that jagger said there was no penis in a photo and nudity ?man the stuff they got away with back then and i know i am probably scoming across as very p.c. but this is the NAZIS . so i wonder about some of there judgements .timbernardis as always thank you for keeping us informed !Quote
timbernardis
I believe this is another Guy Paelart (spelling?).
looks like Keith has a mustache -- Keith as @#$%&??
Is his 'stache modelled after @#$%& or just an early version of his ugly 2007 'stache??!!
p
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
Green Lady
()
Date: April 2, 2009 20:03
Was the Guy Pellaert book done with or without the knowledge/consent/cooperation of its subjects? (Yes, I know about Keith and Brian's fondness for Nazi style and clothing, but these pix go some way beyond that).
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
gmanp
()
Date: April 2, 2009 21:14
I knew about Leni R. from various photography books, etc. But, I knew nothing about Pellaert until I googled and found this,
[www.telegraph.co.uk]
he's recently RIP [Nov, 08]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-02 21:21 by gmanp.
[www.telegraph.co.uk]
he's recently RIP [Nov, 08]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-02 21:21 by gmanp.
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
Deltics
()
Date: April 2, 2009 22:14
Quote
gmanp
I knew about Leni R. from various photography books, etc. But, I knew nothing about Pellaert until I googled and found this,
[www.telegraph.co.uk]
he's recently RIP [Nov, 08]
There was a thread on Guy Peelaert's passing on these pages a little while ago:
[www.iorr.org]
As for Keith and Brians "fondness" for Nazi styling, I'm not so sure although it is true that Brian was photographed in a Nazi uniform (by Anita Pallenberg?) which was widely misconstrued:
I think it was intended to be an anti-fascist statement.
"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
timbernardis
()
Date: April 3, 2009 03:00
well he did have something of Aryan features/hair colour, didn't he?
p
p
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
timbernardis
()
Date: April 3, 2009 04:37
OK, here you go ...
first, one of my fotos from Frankfurt show June 13, 2007, featuring Keith with mustache, taken from the 3rd row center tho by that time, we were basically front row ...
The next day, I drove to Nürnberg and to the site of the Nazi Party Rally Grounds, scene of Triumph des Willens (Triumph of the Will)
As it was then ...
note how it was modeled on Greek/Roman themes -- @#$%& as (a) God complete with Greek/Roman style architecture and the building which looks like an ancient temple, yet a little different than the typical fascist style gray granite architecture
note the Führerpodium in the foto
yes, there was an earlier history to the site as it was called Zeppelin Feld, but the Nazis changed it and used it for their own purposes; the nearby massive Congress Hall was definitely only of the Hiter era (may have some fotos of that, but perhaps later) (and anyone, feel free to correct me if I am getting anything wrong here)
Now, as it is today ...
first shot taken on the other side of the grandstand from the historical image in the foto above. The grounds were being readied for a race as was noted in other posts
again, note the Führerpodium
during one of the mass rallies, taken from behind the Führerpodium
from behind the Führerpodium today, very rougly taken from the same angle as the above historical foto; note the remains of the concrete seating/stands in the distance across the vast rally ground
the Führerpodium as it is today
need I say more?
close-up of the same door as in the foto above
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-03 08:03 by timbernardis.
first, one of my fotos from Frankfurt show June 13, 2007, featuring Keith with mustache, taken from the 3rd row center tho by that time, we were basically front row ...
The next day, I drove to Nürnberg and to the site of the Nazi Party Rally Grounds, scene of Triumph des Willens (Triumph of the Will)
As it was then ...
note how it was modeled on Greek/Roman themes -- @#$%& as (a) God complete with Greek/Roman style architecture and the building which looks like an ancient temple, yet a little different than the typical fascist style gray granite architecture
note the Führerpodium in the foto
yes, there was an earlier history to the site as it was called Zeppelin Feld, but the Nazis changed it and used it for their own purposes; the nearby massive Congress Hall was definitely only of the Hiter era (may have some fotos of that, but perhaps later) (and anyone, feel free to correct me if I am getting anything wrong here)
Now, as it is today ...
first shot taken on the other side of the grandstand from the historical image in the foto above. The grounds were being readied for a race as was noted in other posts
again, note the Führerpodium
during one of the mass rallies, taken from behind the Führerpodium
from behind the Führerpodium today, very rougly taken from the same angle as the above historical foto; note the remains of the concrete seating/stands in the distance across the vast rally ground
the Führerpodium as it is today
need I say more?
close-up of the same door as in the foto above
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-03 08:03 by timbernardis.
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
ChrisM
()
Date: April 3, 2009 04:42
Great pics Tim. Thanks for posting and for your illuminating commentary.
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
JJHMick
()
Date: April 3, 2009 16:10
Regarding Tim's pictures of today: Whenever you have to visit Nuremberg for a sports event, you’ll come to this area in the south of the town. In the back (left) you can see the arena (grey with blue lettering) of the ice hockey team (1st German league). As far as I remember close to it is the hall of the basketball team (2nd league, I think). Over to the left is the football stadium (multiple German champion but now 2nd league; also used during 2006 World Cup).
The photos show the preparation of the Norisring (Noris ist he ancient name of Nuremberg; Ring means circuit). From 3-5 July it will host about 140,000 fans watching the DTM (German touring car championship with Mercedes and Audi competing – but don’t be puzzled by the name they also drive in France, GB and Italy and most of the drivers are from other countries, even former Formula I drivers amongst them!), Formula 3, Porsche Cup and GT races.
15 kilometres of crash barriers have to be installed. From Thursday 8 a.m. to Sunday 8 p.m. the Norisring comes into existence. Besides the builders, the organizing Motorsports Club Nürnberg needs 300 people on the race days alone.
At the road side you see the race control building and containers that will become the pits (where the mechanics work at the cars during the race) plus the VIP/press grandstand to the left. In the rear you can make out the Zeppelin Field which will become the paddock (where the teams keep their hospitality, tents and trucks).
The whole thing becomes colourful instead of „uniformed“!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-03 16:57 by JJHMick.
The photos show the preparation of the Norisring (Noris ist he ancient name of Nuremberg; Ring means circuit). From 3-5 July it will host about 140,000 fans watching the DTM (German touring car championship with Mercedes and Audi competing – but don’t be puzzled by the name they also drive in France, GB and Italy and most of the drivers are from other countries, even former Formula I drivers amongst them!), Formula 3, Porsche Cup and GT races.
15 kilometres of crash barriers have to be installed. From Thursday 8 a.m. to Sunday 8 p.m. the Norisring comes into existence. Besides the builders, the organizing Motorsports Club Nürnberg needs 300 people on the race days alone.
At the road side you see the race control building and containers that will become the pits (where the mechanics work at the cars during the race) plus the VIP/press grandstand to the left. In the rear you can make out the Zeppelin Field which will become the paddock (where the teams keep their hospitality, tents and trucks).
The whole thing becomes colourful instead of „uniformed“!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-03 16:57 by JJHMick.
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
Doc
()
Date: April 3, 2009 16:25
When the Stones played the Zeppelinfeld on the opening night of the European BtoB tour, they played their biggest european paying concert ever, with over 90.000 tickets sold.
I was there, it was very impressive.
Bob Dylan also played there, in 1978, but his stage was facing the original Führerpodium.
The Stones stage was at one end (on the right when standing on the Führerpodium)
[doctorstonesblog.blogspot.com]
I was there, it was very impressive.
Bob Dylan also played there, in 1978, but his stage was facing the original Führerpodium.
The Stones stage was at one end (on the right when standing on the Führerpodium)
[doctorstonesblog.blogspot.com]
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
timbernardis
()
Date: April 3, 2009 17:44
no one dares to set up their stage on the site of the f-podium itself, lest an evil aura descend and besides, it is a historical site
p
p
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: April 3, 2009 19:01
timbernardis, thank you for posting those great photos. what did it feel like walking around this historical site and standing near the fuhrerpodium.man the black and white archival photos are one thing but then for you to actually stand there .you gotta describe to me what that was like .i tip my hat to you for your work on this historic matter !!!
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
timbernardis
()
Date: April 3, 2009 22:58
standing near the fuhrerpodium, near, you say??
you are tempting me and The Fates. I must first commune with THE PLEXIGLASS and ascertain/divine His Will on this.
the plexi
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-03 23:05 by timbernardis.
you are tempting me and The Fates. I must first commune with THE PLEXIGLASS and ascertain/divine His Will on this.
the plexi
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-03 23:05 by timbernardis.
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
timbernardis
()
Date: April 3, 2009 23:03
Posted by: Doc ()
Date: April 3, 2009 06:25
When the Stones played the Zeppelinfeld on the opening night of the European BtoB tour, they played their biggest european paying concert ever, with over 90.000 tickets sold.
I was there, it was very impressive.
Bob Dylan also played there, in 1978, but his stage was facing the original Führerpodium.
The Stones stage was at one end (on the right when standing on the Führerpodium)
I assume that is Dylan from behind his band. Interesting, as Dylan is Jewish. And the stage must have been set up in the far reaches of the rally area, given the distance from the stage to the fuhrerpodium as evidenced in the foto.
plexi
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-03 23:07 by timbernardis.
Date: April 3, 2009 06:25
When the Stones played the Zeppelinfeld on the opening night of the European BtoB tour, they played their biggest european paying concert ever, with over 90.000 tickets sold.
I was there, it was very impressive.
Bob Dylan also played there, in 1978, but his stage was facing the original Führerpodium.
The Stones stage was at one end (on the right when standing on the Führerpodium)
I assume that is Dylan from behind his band. Interesting, as Dylan is Jewish. And the stage must have been set up in the far reaches of the rally area, given the distance from the stage to the fuhrerpodium as evidenced in the foto.
plexi
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-03 23:07 by timbernardis.
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
timbernardis
()
Date: April 3, 2009 23:09
any fotos from the Stones show at the Zeppelinfeld??
esp any where u can see some of the historical features of the grounds?
Interesting, Mick and Adolf, two who had command over and who inspired the masses, on the same grounds, very strange.
And a record setting crowd???
hmmmm
p
esp any where u can see some of the historical features of the grounds?
Interesting, Mick and Adolf, two who had command over and who inspired the masses, on the same grounds, very strange.
And a record setting crowd???
hmmmm
p
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: April 6, 2009 18:48
Quote
timbernardis
any fotos from the Stones show at the Zeppelinfeld??
esp any where u can see some of the historical features of the grounds?
Interesting, Mick and Adolf, two who had command over and who inspired the masses, on the same grounds, very strange.
And a record setting crowd???
hmmmm i like your comment . just a coincedence or more to it .the fact remains the same that mick held court at the same spot.kinda eerie to me .now playing the olympic stadium in berlin is one thing but nuremberg ? i scratch my head over that one .timbernardis thank you!
p
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
timbernardis
()
Date: April 6, 2009 21:02
bump, just in case u did not get a chance to see my fotos of the Nazi Party Rally Grounds in Nurnberg, made famous by Leni in Triumph of the Will
plexi
plexi
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
Bogan444
()
Date: June 8, 2009 17:38
Just to clear up some of the misconceptions on this thread:
-Leni Riefenstahl was never a member of the Nazi Party.
-Olympia was commissioned by the International Olympic Committee, not the Nazi Party. The only "real" film Leni ever made for the Nazi Party was her documentary of the 1934 Party Congress in Nürnberg. She had been asked by @#$%& to record the previous year's Nazi Party rally as well, but @#$%& wasn't in full control of the party in 1933 and her efforts were stymied by the Nazi Party, who wasn't keen on allowing a woman such a role. A film eventually was scrapped together from the little usable footage she was able to get, but it only got a limited showing before being banned (Ernst Röhm, who gets equal billing with @#$%& in the film would be murdered by @#$%& later in that year, so the film almost immediately became politically inconvenient.
-Leni Riefenstahl was tried by the allies for her actions during the war. She had been arrested by the Americans following Germany's surrender, and suffered various forms of prison and house arrest for around four years. She was tried by a a series of highly publicized de-Nazification trials and cleared of any punishable wrongdoing. This was an important event for Leni because it restored her legal standing and she would spend the next decade using the court system to her own advantage in reclaiming her property and film rights, as well as waging slander and libel suits against her detractors.
-It is unlikely Leni ever slept with @#$%&, though as with any powerful woman operating in a field previously dominated by men, her enemies spread such rumors. Leni herself contends that Goebbels propositioned her (he was notrorious for using his Ministry as a casting couch) and that her rejection of him was the start of the deterioration of their relationship.
Finally, to those questioning why Mick would commission Leni to photograph him, I have to remind you, he was Mick Jagger- the greatest rock star in the world, not some quivering PC politician. Leni was one of the most respected artists of the 20th Century. Her life story, which was the triumph of will and iron determination against almost impossible odds, would have appealed to a guy like Mick greatly*. The aesthetic style she helped create became a dominate motif of the rock genre. I'd also note she was an absolute babe in her day, and aged as gracefully as any woman in history (at age 60, she took on a 20 year old lover who would remain her partner for the next 41 years of her life). In short, she was a legend, he was a legend, and the only people who objected to Leni were a certain element of establishment types that Mick wouldn't have cared about impressing anyway, and probably relished thumbing his nose at.
*Lost sometimes in the all the Nazi crap is the fact that Leni Riefenstahl was woman. A female director of a major film project was simply unheard of in the 1930's. It would be practically unheard of in 40's and 50's and 60's as well. Even today you can count the number of significant female directors on one hand. I think modern readers sometimes have trouble contemplating just how significant her accomplishments were because they are so removed in time from the occupational discrimination that women faced. It's often said that Leni was "blacklisted" as a director because of her work with @#$%&. But this is just Western revisionism, similar to pro-Western fairy tales told about Jessie Owens. Male directors of German origin, who unlike Leni had made actual propaganda films for @#$%& (and vile ones at that) had no trouble finding work in the industry after the War. It wasn't her association with @#$%& that blocked Leni's post-war career. It was that that she no longer had a @#$%& around to overrule the latent sexism of the movie industry.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-08 21:35 by Bogan444.
-Leni Riefenstahl was never a member of the Nazi Party.
-Olympia was commissioned by the International Olympic Committee, not the Nazi Party. The only "real" film Leni ever made for the Nazi Party was her documentary of the 1934 Party Congress in Nürnberg. She had been asked by @#$%& to record the previous year's Nazi Party rally as well, but @#$%& wasn't in full control of the party in 1933 and her efforts were stymied by the Nazi Party, who wasn't keen on allowing a woman such a role. A film eventually was scrapped together from the little usable footage she was able to get, but it only got a limited showing before being banned (Ernst Röhm, who gets equal billing with @#$%& in the film would be murdered by @#$%& later in that year, so the film almost immediately became politically inconvenient.
-Leni Riefenstahl was tried by the allies for her actions during the war. She had been arrested by the Americans following Germany's surrender, and suffered various forms of prison and house arrest for around four years. She was tried by a a series of highly publicized de-Nazification trials and cleared of any punishable wrongdoing. This was an important event for Leni because it restored her legal standing and she would spend the next decade using the court system to her own advantage in reclaiming her property and film rights, as well as waging slander and libel suits against her detractors.
-It is unlikely Leni ever slept with @#$%&, though as with any powerful woman operating in a field previously dominated by men, her enemies spread such rumors. Leni herself contends that Goebbels propositioned her (he was notrorious for using his Ministry as a casting couch) and that her rejection of him was the start of the deterioration of their relationship.
Finally, to those questioning why Mick would commission Leni to photograph him, I have to remind you, he was Mick Jagger- the greatest rock star in the world, not some quivering PC politician. Leni was one of the most respected artists of the 20th Century. Her life story, which was the triumph of will and iron determination against almost impossible odds, would have appealed to a guy like Mick greatly*. The aesthetic style she helped create became a dominate motif of the rock genre. I'd also note she was an absolute babe in her day, and aged as gracefully as any woman in history (at age 60, she took on a 20 year old lover who would remain her partner for the next 41 years of her life). In short, she was a legend, he was a legend, and the only people who objected to Leni were a certain element of establishment types that Mick wouldn't have cared about impressing anyway, and probably relished thumbing his nose at.
*Lost sometimes in the all the Nazi crap is the fact that Leni Riefenstahl was woman. A female director of a major film project was simply unheard of in the 1930's. It would be practically unheard of in 40's and 50's and 60's as well. Even today you can count the number of significant female directors on one hand. I think modern readers sometimes have trouble contemplating just how significant her accomplishments were because they are so removed in time from the occupational discrimination that women faced. It's often said that Leni was "blacklisted" as a director because of her work with @#$%&. But this is just Western revisionism, similar to pro-Western fairy tales told about Jessie Owens. Male directors of German origin, who unlike Leni had made actual propaganda films for @#$%& (and vile ones at that) had no trouble finding work in the industry after the War. It wasn't her association with @#$%& that blocked Leni's post-war career. It was that that she no longer had a @#$%& around to overrule the latent sexism of the movie industry.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-08 21:35 by Bogan444.
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
StonesFanatic
()
Date: June 8, 2009 18:10
Quote
lunar!!!
she died a coupla years ago at age 100 (!!!!)....still trying to clear her name from the nazi era...of course she couldn't stand @#$%&....
Yeah right. It's amazing how many of the Germans *after* the war claimed to hate @#$%&...the same way so many French were all of a sudden members of the resistance after the war and not collaborating via Vichy France...
Why did Mick even take pics with her?
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: June 8, 2009 18:14
Quote
timbernardis
I assume that is Dylan from behind his band. Interesting, as Dylan is Jewish. And the stage must have been set up in the far reaches of the rally area, given the distance from the stage to the fuhrerpodium as evidenced in the foto.
plexi
That Dylan show was fantastic (as was that entire European tour in '78 - arguably his finest ever series of shows). He introduced 'Masters of War'by saying "It gives me great pleasure to sing it in this place!"
Re: Request for the Leni Riefenstahl pictures of Mick Jagger for the Sunday Times Magazine in 74
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: June 8, 2009 18:22
Quote
Doc
When the Stones played the Zeppelinfeld on the opening night of the European BtoB tour, they played their biggest european paying concert ever, with over 90.000 tickets sold.
Really? I thought I read in a page that used to be on the internet and which listed official audience figures for Stones shows that Roundhay Park, Leeds in 1982 had about 120,000 attendees.
I'd have thought Strahov Stadium in Prague 1990 would have had even higher than that figure as well.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-08 18:23 by Gazza.
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